MonSTeR

Actually the that's how I run it at the moment, the correlated -3 and -3 type thing. It seems to work for me better than any other way I've come across.

As for making the roles based on the skill roles, that's definately something to consider but could run into problems where there's the desire to use multiple skills in the same round? But it does seem realistic to imply that experience with a weapon affects not only the accuracy, but the ability to bring the weapon to bear quickly, the trouble comes when a character has skill levels that would interefere with this, such as a pistol specialist suddenly dropping 6 points of initiative because they were using a SMG or similar.

Or even when mid round a character switches to a weapon they're significantly MORE proficient with so as to increase their initiaive for that round, mid round?

I might even suggest the case for a seperate "initiative" stat? instead of "reflexes" as it stands?

Well Chrys said I should make a list of the area's I'd like to elp in, so first of all I made a list of what I think is wrong with the game and some little pointers for what I'd consider the right direction. I'm still not sure where I'd best be employed though

Big list of things that are wrong with CP2020.

1) It’s no longer 1988.

2) Incredibly static “roles”, introduction of  “approved” flexibility within and around roles/archetypes etc.

3) Linear cost of character point distribution. Would a slight biasing be an option?

4) Statistics, several points here, i) separation of Body into “fitness and build” stats ala Phipps’ system, averaging of Strength feat with Body to get final “Strength Attribute” as in my system. ii) Introduction of “mechanical” type stat. iii) Introduction of “Pros and Cons” system, borrowed from GURPS and BESM.

5) Background system; perhaps shrink it down so as to focus on the most important thing that happened that year? Introduction of a “points based” background scheme.

6) Skill System. IP modifiers need a severe going over.

7) Reputation needs clarifying, the who’s where’s and when’s perhaps incorporate it as some part of a skill rather than a separate stat.

8) Gear Lists need updating a great deal to focus on current shifts in technology, cell phones will be the new laptops etc…

9) Cyberware needs revamping, perhaps an increase in price on “Cybernetics” over other more “organic”, as well as the humanity costs needing serious overhaul. Currently as it stands. At the moment a basic cyberoptic module that lets you have the same vision you had before can cost up to 12 hp, but having a built in microscope, that lets you see the bacteria on your food, well that only costs .5 hp. A cyberarm covered in realskin, that 75% of the time is INDISTINGUISHABLE from a regular arm, well that can cost up to 9 hp, having chrome plated armour on top of that, well… that only costs 3 points… I’d suggest making the basic functional item, less expensive on the humanity, but some of the options costing a lot more.

10) Redescription of a lot of the nanoware to be more biological and less mechanical, focusing on tailored viruses and symbiotic bacteria etc. Perhaps more detail on some of the options especially for “non-military” folks difference between thermo-optics and IR and Lo-Light etc.

11) FNFF, combat rules need clearing up, initiative and phases and who can act when. The “Rule of 3” is what I use, highest initiative, acting first and counting down in phases till the next character and so on. A big question is WHEN can a second and third action be performed? Again rule of 3, 3 phases after the first.

12) Damage system, armour, and BTM. Rules for armour penetration vs Tissue damage.

13) Clarification of “head hits” when the damage is doubled, ir after armour but before BTM or…? Clarification of “point blank range” hits always doing maximum damage.

14) Clarification of melee attacks, how long it lasts, breaking off etc.

15) MMRR in FNFF (Monday Morning Road Rage) Vehicle rule revamp?

16) Medical Stuff is Joe Public’s domain.

17) Drugs need a complete over haul, especially with some durations make them a lot more effective/realistic?

18) Netrunning LMAO.

19) All things dark and cyberpunk. Update/rewrite this section, to keep things as The public would say, “Underground”. Decide on a year in which to set the game, how far forward would it be taken in order to allow a reasonable level of technological progression. Changing the past from the year dot is ok, but extrapolating on the future is more logical. What would the influences be here in this new “biopunk” era. Who should we all read first. Is this our game “Snowcrash” as CP2020 is to gibson’s work? Running cyberpunk. Well the biggest section, expand the “read/see/watch/do” list. Remember, it’s no longer 1988.

Oh, and I know I'm posting a lot on this thread, but I'm not taking over in any way, shape or from, I'm just a bit player with a big mouth;)

Yeah so what I was saying about the Tech levels and the technology tree idea you came up with.

It's like you'd need to include certain advancements in technology to make others even theoretically possible, But by assigning things a level, you could say, Weapons are evolved to "this" level, but cyberware is only "this" level, but make sure that you had all your bases covered from a realism point of view. So you know that you need DNA sequencing before you get genetic engineering and so on, but you don't need anything to do with that to make uber-weapons, because the technologies are completely unrelated.

It'd just be a convenient (and possible copywrighted ) way of giving "The modularity of such a tree should probably allow a large degree of gm controlled changes." like you said:)

Oh right sorry my bad The tech level sort of sets out things throughout history/future by assigning them a "Tech-Level" or TL.

Things like revolvers and single action rifles might be TL6, whereas an automatic pistol, or a machinegun might be TL7 and a Laser Pistol might be TL8 where as a "Deathsolo Class handheld planetary eliminator" (a Deathstar type weapon complete with cold fusion generator, in the frame of a Walther PPK) might be TL20 or something. Spears and clubs and rocks and animal skin loinclothes might be TL1

"The Definitve Guide to Operational Rules" It's starting sound like LUYPS - The next generation - I LIKE IT

The security chief at the Chrome Lipstix Gentlemans' Club, smirks to himself before releasing the lock on the door,

"You weren't here, this never happened. I'll see you when you're done playing hero!"

He pats the solo on the back as he leaves the office back out into the main room of the club. Texas smiles from across the room, she's loading some gear, most likely clothes and makeup into a backpack she's probably heading off to the gym or simlilar before starting work tonight.

Coffee reaches into the top pocket of his battered suit jacket and pulls out a small, thin and equally battered notebook with a little pencil and whilst rummaging through his other pockets for a cell phone, places it on the table.

"Soon as I finish my drink."

He takes a sip from his glass and then picks up one of the cigars.

Count VON illegal firearm!!! Count TWO illegal firearms!!! Count TREE illegal firearms!!! Ahh ahh ahh ahh, von, two, tree, tree illegal firearms!!!

Der Uzi 9mm, der 12 guage auto-loader and der 45 Longslide wiz ze laser sighting

/me sticks the "dunce-hat" on and goes and stands in the Stupid-Corner.

Yep, the submission of the initial synopsis for the project would be crucial in gaining Rtal's support.

Everyone who's involved in the project must be aware of what the project's goals are nad stick to them rather than their own goals.

So is anyone any clearer on what this project IS trying to achieve?

Quote (malek77 @ Sep. 12 2002,06:31)

What is the GURPS system? I have an order to put in for something here - no btm. Damage resolution simply has to be faster, with as little calculating as possible. Even if the end result isn't perfectly real, but is kinda cinematic, I don't mind. Just keep the extra additions, subtractions and divisions away from me! Also - FNFF2 could include the combat suggestions Chrys is working up in that other thread! Detail as little articles the general way a gangfight develops - and how best to get out.(JoeQ? ) Detail a raid on a secured office, maybe a bit of a highway scrap. Sure - unnecessary for experienced armchair-commando gm's, but it would be wonderfully elucidating for newbies! I have this map idea in my head, with little diagrams saying "Assault team A is being covered by sniper C...while the netrunner keeps the CCTV system distracted!" like a little tactical manual. Hum. Make it look nice and corporate...

GURPS stands for Generic Universal Role Playing System, and is published by Steve Jackson Games. Many folks have said Fuzion is Half GURPS and Half Interlock.

I still like BTM, it makes sense to me, especially if you're going to make weapons do more damage, but there's that whole other thread on that somewhere

But then again it all depends on whether the project would have to start from scratch, or would be allowed to use the Interlock system, etc. and of course how co-operative RTal are.

That's probably the best idea yet imho

It could be done in exactly the same way as LUYPS, with everyonetaking a section and putting thier ideas down, and then swapping sections and the like to add more comentary to each other's house rules?

Anyone?

Wow Malek, I never knew it had gotten so detailed

But yeah that's a good place to start forming the "technology tree" It seems like it's heading towards GURPS' "tech-level" system though. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I don't know. It'd need to get organisedinto levels though and prerequisites for OTHER levels etc first.

The other thing I wonder is what this should be based on? What is the defining "'punk" thing the game would be suggesting?

Coffee smiles a little, in fact no-one would really notice it but Rat and leans forwards to pick up his beer. He takes a slow sip from the pint glass.

"I'm doin' alright for myself, Kid, keeping things smooth and steady, like hows they's supposed to run," his smile broadens before he continues. "But there's always one thing that won't play nice. So tell me more about what we do next."

Rat relaxes a little as soon as he hears the word "we", Coffee has his fingers in many pies, and he even owns a couple of the pie dishes.

Jesus tucks the card into the inside pocket of his jacket with one hand and shakes hands with Shrap with the other.

"If I need it, I'll use it."

He turns his attention to Neko.

"Good to meet you kid."

He wanders over to the bar, nodding to the other couple of hispanic guys at his table on the way. There's a brief exchange of nods of acknowledgement between the crews at the two tables to keep up the wokring relationships and then the solo and the techie find themselves alone at their table again.

Again, that's the trouble with the fact that as it stands the "body" stat covers so much. Size and stamina and strength and...

The "Body" stat also has to cover everyone from Peter Parker's Aunt May, and her osteoperosis, to guys who, through muscle grafting, and MBL etc, end up effectively being like the Hulk. I know comics aren't maybe the most "cyberpunk" characters to relate this too, but they're characters we all know.

It's like the same way in the CP2020 system that someone who through a high "Ref" stat is good at handstands and forward rolls is automatically a good helicopter pilot.

Well first I'd like to add my support to this little endeavour. If it's an actual game fix type book we're going for, then I think anyone interested should go read these 2 threads...

The Perfect Cyberpunk?, What would it be like?

and...

Character Classes, Yea or Nea?

Apart from overhauling the Rules themselves, the equipment and guns and cyberware that have been published might benefit from an overhaul in a more detailed Shadowrun type affair?

There's been a big technology shift in the 15 years since the game was originally written too. Maybe going more BioPunk rather than Cyberpunk for the "cyberware". Overhaul the armour and damage systems and apply it retrospectively to the published stuff. And howabout a "netrunning" system based on the fact that folks may well still be sitting at home typing on a keyboard in front of a monitor, or even able to netrun from their cell-phone which in turn will be able to be about the size of a credit card.

Sort of along the lines of maybe saying 5 points of damage with a BTM style modifier to incapacitate a limb, and 10 points of damage with a BTM style modifier to sever the limb,

That sort of thing?

It sounds ok, but it's verging on "hit points" and would from a paperwork standpoint, mean that you'd have to have either seperate character sheets for every body type, or go round colouring in a couple of boxes in every wound category for average characters, messy and definately not stylish.

It might be worth trying out in a game one time though.

I'd love to get it underway again, I think Phipp's KISS system has the beginnings of something extremely promising. We have got the right mix of folks here, because we're the types that are drawn to "the Edge", the trouble is  I doubt RTal would let a group of us loose on their franchise

And the thing we'd need more than anything is an editor, someone to tell us when our stuff sucks the big one.

I agree with Malek that CP won't survive v3. It sounds like it's trying to be all things to all people, and I don't think ANY of the people want that.

Shadowrun did have some fantastic levels of detail, but it lacked any flair whatsoever, and I think the CPv3 will, from the sound of the press release, also lack that flair.

The other trouble is, where would we all take OUR version of CP?

Jesus sighs and reaches into his pocket, he knows he's in too deep to stop now, Neko instinctively but imperceivably glances over with one hand moving silently up to his own jacket. As he produces his pocket-comp, Neko pauses for a second then relaxes, he wasn't about to let anyone get the drop on his crew again, Jesus didn't even notice.

"Here you go," he turns the tiny unit around "'Relativity Aeronautics' it's basically a couple of guys with a rented hanger down at the airport. They were some military crew or something, they stayed together after finishing their tours in Cen-Am. They did evac-birds down there, so I put this one their way."

?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

OK look at it a different way, a cut that goes 2 inches deep into the 23" biceps, will go say one quarter of the way in, doing some serious damage to the muscle.

A cut that goes 2 inches into the teenage waif's arm would sever it.

Likewise a shot that takes a chunk out of the big guy's arm is going to blow the little girl's arm clean off.

I think the fact that once a hit has been allocated to a body area, folks seem to forget that there's a lot more area to choose from on a big person (high bod) than on a skinny one (low bod). If you imagine the arm as a cylinder, the cross section of someone with a very low bod could be though to be only a couple of inches, the cross section of someone with a very high body stat, might be 8 or 10 inches, that's like 4 times the cross sectional area to hit. If you've only got 2 inches of area to deal with, then the physical size of the bullet  is going to comparatively do more damage to the small area than the large area.

IF the exit wound was say 1 inch in diameter, then on a 2 inch cross section that's 50% of the thing gone, but on an 8" cross section, that's only 12.5%... And that's why I believe BTM plays an important part of the damage system where a 90lbs schoolgirl has the same "hit points" as a 300lbs bodybuilding soldier

Yeah, but... going back to my previous example, "Body" doesn't just represent the strength of the character it represents pretty much ALL aspects of their physical size, including both strength and toughness.

Even more than that just from a plain size point of view, lets take our 18 year old Hanns with his 23" biceps. That's a hell of a lot more arm than Sarah Michelle Gellar has. A hit to a big arm is going to do comparatively less damage than a hit to a small arm.

Don't forget BTM also comes into play from brawling damage and melee damage too.

A cut half an inch deep into a big guy's arm could probably be considered a fleshwound, a half inch cut into a skinny teen actress is probably going to pass about 1/4 to 1/3 of the way through her whole arm!!!

Jesus doesn't notice Shrap's surprise, he's too worried about saving his hide,

"Screw me over? Not really my friend, but I'm not going to get caught up in one of Boss Vito's vendettas. Keeping my name on his good side is enough for me."