Master_Drow

It would probably be pretty easy to convert a lot of the Shadowrun creatures to Cyberpunk. I mean the Juggernaut is an armadillo the size of a Humvee and has 3 foot long mono edged claws. It is the equivalent of a light armor vehicle in combat, maybe even an ACPA. I could definitely see someone like Militech making something like this to hunt rebels hiding in African jungles.

Would reducing all armor by 2-4 points have any large negative consequences, if I wanted to do that?

Well the 5.56 round would be more viable, and metal gear would be able to take a few hits of 5.56 before it got penetrated. But as soon as the 7.62 round was on the field everyone would start taking lots of damage.

I am actually playing through the first Witcher game right now. It is definitely 18+ I mean there are some pretty gruesome scenes, and there are boobs, in full color, with nips and all (plus some other anatomy). Definitely a game for a mature audience.

 

Plus the moral choices can make you go crazy. "Should I help this person? Sure seems like a good guy." Later find out he killed 30 people because he used your help to buy a bunch of crack and then went on a murder spree...

 

The cool part is that you can bribe some guards by being their crack dealer. So it has pros and cons. Just don't think too much about what you are doing, it leads to questioning all of humanity.

Well it looks like it won't be a kiddy version fully of puppies and rainbows.

 

So an actual cyberpunk game. I hope it is more complete than E.Y.E Divine Cybermancy which was a good game, just lacked follow through.

Kathleen is more likely to be striping down her weapons than to have any one in an assembled and functional state.

Being an independent operation (from a legal standpoint, as in reality we will be recognised as operating from Elysia, and thus "French") entering foreign territory is going to cause one hell of dipomatic mess...

But much less of a mess than if France sent in a rescue team that crossed into British territory. Most likely we will be ignored as we are not part of France and are helping people that territories were unable to help themselves.

 

Basically from what I can tell we are a quick response version of Medicine sans Frontiers (Doctors without Borders). While we do get money/support from the French government we are on a humanitarian mission that is not associated with the French government and we are distinctly independent of the government.

 

Medicine sans Frontiers

These doctors concluded that a new aid organization was needed that would ignore political/religious boundaries and prioritize the welfare of victims.

 

The basic idea would be the same here. We are an aid organization that ignores political boundaries and prioritizes the welfare of people. Few territories would refuse free aid for its citizens.

"It will come, but only when there is a high enough demand so that you can have a “public highway” system. To support today’s air traffic network, you’ve got to have a million passengers constantly on the move. The same will be true in space: It’s not really a technology problem, it’s more a sort of chicken-and-egg economic problem. I hope that it will grow, probably on the back of the military. The military has needs for all kinds of space launching and is prepared to pay for it. So with luck something like this space highway will develop. It doesn’t matter who pays for it initially. In the end it will belong to everybody."

While I do appreciate that military weapons were banned from space, looking back it is kind of hindering the military investment in space. Sure we might have all been nuked from orbit by the Russians, but at least we would have a moon colony!

 

 

And another reason to go to space would not be because of what we can get in space but what we can avoid down here. If half the US was covered in radiation/pollution then the need for new land would have us colonizing outside of our biosphere much more quickly.

I am kinda in love with H, it speaks to my soul.... or something.

I'm not seeing anything, but I also have ad block on.

The biggest problem is the cost of launch not the return of money. If you can lower the cost of launch you can dramatically increase the amount of space travel and economics.

 

Right now we don't consider mining astroids to be economically viable because you would have to mine things like platinum just to stay afloat. That is because for a standard rocket launch the cost per kg is between 4,000 and 20,000 dollars. But if you could lower that cost to between 300 and 500 dollars per kg then you can get viable space commerce.

 

 

Non-Rocket Spacelaunch Costs

 

This link has a nice comparison table between several types of space launches. If you choose even one of these you can cut the cost of a space launch to almost 1/10th of what it is today. This would make space travel much more viable for commercial and personal use.

I am not so much complaining about my players use of stealth and guerrilla warfare but the use of MA and Point Blank rules. Right now the rules as written have the players able to move up and unload. I think I can fix the problem by changing how movement works.

One problem I was having was what modifiers I needed to apply. So if the players are moving and shooting what modifiers apply? -1/-3 for extra actions, -3 for running and gunning, -2 for firing from the hip, -3 for fast draw/snapshot, +5 for Ambush/surprise, -3 for moving target, +/- for Full auto, etc. All of these could be factors and some do or don't stack, which do which don't? It was making it way more complicated than it needed to be.

 

 

So I don't mind smart player tactics (in fact I reward them) but it was the use of the movement and point blank = max damage rule that was getting stupid not clever. I also think that the game needs some rules about firing a gun in melee combat, like a person can use the martial arts dodge skill to avoid the gun or the martial arts block ability to block the gun from getting a clean shot (bat it aside). This would apply a penalty to the gun user equal to the dodge/block. aka Ref+MA+1d10, or maybe half of that.

 

However, you guys have given me a few idea on how to counter ambushes that I was not thinking of. I am not really used to anything beyond gutter/street punk and it shows when I get to military campaigns.

Few quick questions.

 

IP modifiers on starting skills, use them or not? I was planning to make a pilot/techy but with the IP cost of those skills I would have to focus one or the other. (or have an average of 2 on most skills)

 

Starting Gear. Should we include a set of starting gear or will we deal with that after character creation?

Movement speed per round. The movement rules say "Move up to your full Movement (3x your Movement Allowance In yards) per round. Actions (such as reloading, defending, or Combat Actions) made during the full movement are possible, but incur a –3 penalty. Or move up to 1yard and perform any other action." My players often had a 5 or 7 MA and could move 15 to 21 meters (49 to 68 feet) in a single 3.3 second round? That is half the long range of a pistol! All weapons with a 50 meter or less range were dropped as martial arts became the king of the field. Until my players discovered the point blank rules. (see below)

Let them take a single Quick Action if they use an all-out move. So they could snap off a single shot (don't forget the -3 for Firing While Running and the penalty for the other guy being a moving target) and not do much else. And Skinweave, of course. Skinweave plus a Uniware Trenchcoat for SP 22 is a classic bit of cheese for the defender. Add in a Dodge roll and return fire at Point Blank range.

 

You'll be amazed at how quickly players restrain their antics if you start using their tactics and similar equipment back at them. After all, why shouldn't an NPC fight as hard to live as a PC. Unless they're a suicidal nihilist, of course.

I was using equivalent equipment. Both sides had 5.56 rifles, and both sides had between 15 and 20 armor on each location.

 

I think allowing only a quick combat action instead of a full RT while moving will solve the problem. Then the players would only get a single shot (maybe two) not a full auto.

 

But even then they would just take the -3 from movement, -3 for enemy movement, -4 called shot head (total -10) and they only have to hit a DV 10 at point blank which is still very possible. And a single shot to the head at that range is instant death due to the max damage rule. And if the enemy was hiding behind cover and not moving then that is only a -7 not a -10 and the PC's get even better at called shots to the head.

 

Plus Dodge only exists in martial combat in IU, unlike in CP2020 it is not a general skill.

 

 

Maybe someone can clarify exactly when a shot from the hip and a quick shot apply? That could solve the problem.

 

 

Another tip is, don't allow called shots when people are using bursts. Whether that is a three round or full auto burst. Sure, I bet there are people on this board who can group shots impressively closely together. BUt for game purposes, it's not a good idea to allow this, Otherwise you end up with the "Three round burst to the head" situation becoming the norm.

I was not allowing called shots on Full auto but even then at point blank often 5 to 7 rounds would hit the target at random locations. After the first two limbs are blown off the target have little chance of recovery.

 

Also, check out Chromebook 1. There's some good, cheap armour in their. Flack vests and pants are ok, but they don't hold a candle to Gibson Battlegear or Uniware armor.

I was trying to keep with equal armor and weapons.

 

 

Melee and firearms. Are there any penalties for using a ranged weapon (like a rifle) in melee combat? I could not find any, and once my players realized this those who lived by the fist died to those who didn't. (see the point blank rules above)

As far as I can tell, there aren't any rules, other than the type of Actions you can take in combat, that could be pertinent.

 

That said, those rules are highly pertinent. I'd be inclined to apply a Firing From the Hip penalty (-2) and use Weapon Concealability as a guideline for getting inside the reach of a weapon. If it became relevant. So a pistol in close combat is faster than a rifle. But not to the point of modifying Initiative, just as a kind of tie breaker.

The melee range penalties are still a source of confusion to me. I do not understand how to apply them at all, and I could find no rules to explain them, just a table in the melee combat section.

 

And finally, remember the words, "If you guys can do it, what's to stop the NPCs from doing it?"

Yeah did that, massive enemy losses ensued as the players would often win initiative and then gun down an enemy squad. My players liked using this tactic when they had equal or greater numbers so they could inflict massive enemy losses. Then an enemy moral check was called for as over half the squad was dead.

 

If the players were outnumbered they ran away as fast as they could and stealth into the shadows. This was possible because I was playing a Vietnam style game with lots of trees and large leafed bushes. The players would keep to the back country and surprise the enemy patrols on the roads or when the enemy had set camp for the night.

 

 

At any rate: suppressing fire! Lots of suppressing fire!

Tried it with limited success. The biggest problem with 5.56 rifles and people wearing 20 armor is that most hits don't pen armor, even using degrading armor it took multiple hits in the same location to do any real damage to someone. That is when the players started using the point blank = max damage rule to just curb stomp the enemy.

 

 

 

 

The basic scene went like this. Players stealth near an enemy camp. Taking cover behind trees and some nice thick bushes the players would aim and call shot to the head the first few enemies. The enemy not really knowing where the players were would try to suppress the general area, but the larger the area the easier the save, plus with the SP of the tree protecting the left half of their body the players were relatively safe (btw, the tree's have a typo of 90 SP, I dropped it to 10 SP) Then the players would either run away if too many enemies were shooting or would charge in and light them up. Enemy limbs went flying and the players would retreat before reinforcements could arrive.

 

 

While I think you were right... you know, if the players did come up with a complicated plan, Derren Brown style, to hypnotise half a city, that would be really entertaining to watch!

They tried to take over all of africa by brainwashing small towns of a few hundred people into following them under the cause of "liberation of Africa from the European suppressors" The idea was to destabilize a small region of a major African city cause the government to send in the military and suppress the "uprising" and then use the hundreds of dead "civilians" as martyrs as the rallying cry for African Liberation from Europe and the dictators they put in power in Africa. Rinse repeat, destabilize Africa and be the shadow head of the liberation army (they used several patsies) They would focus on cheap suicidal aircraft and ground forces who would out number any army and use the superior numbers to take 1 to 1 losses. First stop was Mount Kilimanjaro where they would "liberate" the mass driver and start shooting down space stations. Europe would retaliate with an all out invasion and then African Liberation army would use this as yet another rallying cry of how evil Europe was trying to suppress Africa and its freedoms. Mass propaganda and Brainwashing ensued.

 

Another way was to get access to the president of a African country (often by brainwashing his doctor) and then would brainwash the president and use him as a patsy. Again calls for African Liberation would arise and propaganda would ensue. Hoping to insight Europe to attack or assassinate the pasty was the idea, then they would use that as a rallying cry against european suppression. If other african nations tried to negotiate with the controlled nation an African summit would be called and mass brainwashing would ensue.

 

The only way out was the make hypnotism/brainwashing a stage magic trick.

Ok I just got back from running a huge game week. Over the course of 4 days I ran around 40 hours of cyberpunk (and about 6 hours of other games). I had two new players who had pervious RPG experience but had never seen cyberpunk. I got them hooked.

 

I run mostly IU but I use CP2020 when I feel the IU rules are lacking, this makes the game about 98% IU.

 

I mostly run gutter punk or street punk games. But, in order to grab the attention of the new guys I kicked it up to full blow military tech. This meant easier access to normally restricted gear. This really stress the combat rules in just about every aspect of the game and I felt unprepared for what I needed. I will outline below.

 

 

Hypnotism/brainwashing skill. Reads "Hypnotism/Brainwashing - the ability to put another person into a trance, and cause them to be under your control." Ok this was getting abused so hard, my players were trying to brainwash half a city. I ruled that it was referring to stage magic not full blown mind control. Was I right?

 

 

Movement speed per round. The movement rules say "Move up to your full Movement (3x your Movement Allowance In yards) per round. Actions (such as reloading, defending, or Combat Actions) made during the full movement are possible, but incur a –3 penalty. Or move up to 1yard and perform any other action." My players often had a 5 or 7 MA and could move 15 to 21 meters (49 to 68 feet) in a single 3.3 second round? That is half the long range of a pistol! All weapons with a 50 meter or less range were dropped as martial arts became the king of the field. Until my players discovered the point blank rules. (see below)

 

Point Blank Damage rule says "Point Blank: The weapon is very close to or in physical contact with the target. It will almost always hit, doing maximum damage." Max damage? (CP 2020 put very close at 1 meter or less) This coupled with the fact that players could move amazingly fast was used to instantly kill anyone. My players were moving up to an enemy and then unloading full auto at point blank, sure they don't get the +1 per 10 rounds to hit but that instant max damage led to enemies just exploding. Even the 5.56 assault rifles do 5d6 damage (30 max) so when the players move up and full auto (-3 for movement) they had to hit a DV 10 to hit at that range and for every bullet that hit the enemy took 30 damage. This blew through the flack vests and pants that the enemy had and limbs flew everywhere. Massive enemy losses ensued. Short of MetalGear enemies I did not see a way to fix this...

 

 

Martial Arts: Due to the early surge in martial arts I got really familiar with the MA rules. The most confusing part was

This coupled with that a person can dodge/block leads to the a bit of confusion. After about 20 minutes I realized that a defender can either use REF+Skill+Bonuses/Penalties+1D10 or his dodge/block ability (one free) to avoid attacks.

However, what if a person wants to dodge/block multiple attacks? Does his use his actions from the next round to increase the number of dodges/blocks he can get?

 

 

Melee and firearms. Are there any penalties for using a ranged weapon (like a rifle) in melee combat? I could not find any, and once my players realized this those who lived by the fist died to those who didn't. (see the point blank rules above)

 

 

 

So, how do I fix the problem that my players are just running up and full auto killing the enemies at point blank? I don't want to have to use Power Armored enemies to stop a simple 5.56 rifle.

Ok well that sorts out the timeline problem, thanks!

 

 

Maybe skinweave should be listed as military/police grade equipment. You know restrict access to it?

That would be the same way that they can interface the brain with a virtual reality construct or that they can remove a brain completely and slap it into a metal body, then have the whole thing work and not just kill the person being experimented on.

 

If you start asking questions about 2020 tech, pretty quickly the whole thing starts to come apart.

Actually the CP timeline at least justifies the use of cyberware, cybermodems, and brain jacking. They are listed as actually technological advances.

 

For example cyberware

starts in 1991 with get artificial muscle fibers developed.

In 1993 the biological interface chip is developed.

If you want you can say cyberware is developed as part of the huge number of wars that happen in the timeline.

Then in 2015 the history specifically mentions cyber-mercenaries

 

So by 2020 you have a pretty well established basis for cyberware.

 

Similar things are done with the net. 1993 biological interface chip. 2001 the framework for the net is finished with the Worldsat network. 2005 cybermodem invented. 2013 Netwatch is formed, and AI is made. 2014 the I-G transform is made. 2016 third corp war is done primarily over the net.

 

So you see the timeline does support these ideas. What it does not support is the advances in bioware to the extent of skinweave.

 

Now sure the timeline is super accelerated and crazy in more than a few places but it is at least consistent. I mean look at 1992 they use high energy lasers lifts to reach space, so they made a space elevator in the 3 years since the book was released? Even the writers had to know that was very unlikely. But if you accept the idea that we reached space easily in 1992 then the idea of space station Tycho being made in 1999 is actually possible, and Crystal Palace in 2000. However, my argument still stands that even using the timeline provided bioware just comes out of nowhere and is suddenly the best thing on the market, there is no evidence in the timeline about how bioware got so good.

 

SP 12 skin weave wouldn't be possible with CP2020 level tech

This is the part that I most agree with. The idea that in 30 years (from 1989 when the book was written) we would have nanites that can make your skin harder by weaving in some form of sub-dermal mesh is absurd, even for the CP 2020 timeline. The CP timeline has bioware lagging behind cyberware, 2004 first cloned tissue growth, microsutures, sterilization fields developed. In 2006 the first clone is made but it is mindless and dies in 6 hours. In 2017 the first actual self-aware clone is made. By the time of 2020 we barely have made any advances in understanding the intricacies of the human body yet somehow we can make skin as strong as kevlar?

 

And even if we could make skin that tough how did we get past all of the side effects? I not even talking about the heat or touch issue. Im talking about nanites accidentally weaving mesh into your brain or lungs. These suckers are hard to program and even harder to troubleshoot, it would take at least a decade to make this work right.

And even then for a copyright violation they would need to show loss. I don't see how a Cyberpunk PDF will reduce car sales, so your safe. Just don't have the guys who run the company be like super evil villains that eat babies, or some such, and they will have nothing on you.

OK that is really damn impressive.

Copper and zinc are both getting much more expensive which is driving up the prices of brass-cased cartridges. Copper has gotten to the point that people are breaking into empty houses to pull all of the copper wiring to sell as scrap, which can lead to multiple felony convictions.

Its why canada is discontinuing production of the penny as it happens. Currently they're as CHEAP as they can be made and still look like a penny, being 98.5% (by mass) cheap steel with 1.5% copper plating over them and they still cost 1.1 cents EACH to product. Meaning to produce 10 million of the things annually, costs $11 million dollars. There's probably a quarter billion of them in circulation though so its not like we're likely to run out anytime soon.

 

As it happens, the older pennies which are from the period when they still were 100% copper... are now worth more for scrap value than they are as legal tender.

For more information on the subject of pennies.

 

Basically copper is expensive, switch to caseless ammo to save money.

I just don't agree that there is going to be a Captain Mal Reynolds owning space ship Serenity carrying loads across the solar system in 2020/2037.

I agree that it is not very feasible for a Firefly like game in either 2020 or 2037. It is however much more likely in 2100. I mean we did not even have the Model-T in 1912 and just look at us now, we have hundreds of cars. So in 100 years it is very possible we could be planet hopping in our own private space shuttle.

At this rate it will be a 200 page book. I would definitely suggest doing it in chunks just for the sake of sanity.

 

Also where can I get a copy of that map at full size?

I tend to make armor harder to get anyway... other than basic bullet proof vests. Armored clothing is available, but is expensive as hell and usually has to be custom fitted (the price multipliers add up quick).

What I don't understand is that (using base rule) a pair of High Fashion Pants cost 80eb, but somehow a kevlar shirt is only 90eb? Or that a High Fashion Jacket costs 140eb and a Light armor jacket cost 150eb?

 

Then again a fancy suit can cost a thousand dollars, but so does military grade armor.

 

I just think it is weird that a fancy suit and a 20 Sp vest cost the same. There should probably be some sort of Availability restriction on armor.

I always use the bludgeoning rule. If soft armor stops a bullet you still take 1/5 damage as bludgeoning. So even though a 9mm 2d6+1 (average of 7) it will still do a point of bludgeoning damage. So when that ganger pulls out his submachine gun, or unloads the whole clip from the pistol your players are still worried about the side effect. Sure they may not die instantly but if even a few bullets hit them they are dropping down the hit box table and stun saves start to abound. I find this makes players still aware of small guns but it still allows skin weave to be effective.

 

Also don't forget the errata to the Core rule book where skinweave now counts as one of your 3 layers of armor. Sure it has no penalty but that is one less armor layer you can wear.

 

I think dropping skin weave down to 4 SP might be a bit much. At 4 sp and that fact the you can only wear 3 layers of armor then why would anyone ever get it? Setting skinweave at 10 SP would probably work better without breaking the game. It is 2000eb after all, more that 3 times the cost of metal gear.

 

 

A kevlar t-shirt is SP 10, EV +0 and only cost 90eb. Nothing stops a player from wearing a t-shirt all of the time. Or hey he could even makes that shirt into pants and a fancy turban. Heck if you go t-shirt ninja you can have full face protection. T-shirt ninja The way I see it you could buy 5 kevlar shirts and cover your entire body in Sp 10 for only 450eb.

 

Skinweave is SP 12 EV +0 and cost 2,000 eb. So instead of using 5 t-shirts for full body SP 10 armor you get skin weave which is only 2 points more and cost 2000eb instead of the 450 eb for 5 shirts. For more than 4 times the cost you get 20% better armor. The one benefit is that you always have skin weave on. But then again, who says you need to take off a t-shirt? And again it is 4 times the price. Seems pretty reasonable when you look at it that way. Also remember that skin weave take 2 weeks to reach full strength, it probably takes time for it to repair as well.

 

Maybe what we need to address is the fact that good armor is so damn cheap to get, or that most handguns do crap damage when used against armored opponents. Then again a 12mm pistol round will pierce skin weave on an average shot.

What exactly is the interlock system? I've heard the term before but I'll be honest, me and my friends are all very casual, I have a copy of the core 2020 book and haven't really looked into any more than that until now.

Coming from D&D myself I might be the best suited to answer this question.

 

As you probably know D&D runs on the d20 system. The basics of this are that to do anything you roll a d20 add a stat and the correct modifier (BAB for attack, skill for skill checks, etc). If you need more of an explanation here is the wikipedia link. D20 System Wikipedia

 

The Interlock system is similar to the d20 system. The major difference is that it uses a d10. The basics of this system is that any roll is broken down into d10 + Stat + Skill. So anything you do in an interlock system requires the player/GM to roll a d10 and then add the appropriate stat and skill. As a result there is no such thing as Base Attack Bonus (BAB), or Saves, or Armor class (in the conventional D&D sense). Every roll uses a Stat and a Skill. As a result Interlock is much more skill based than D&D. To shoot an AK-47 you use the Rifle skill. To dodge a sword you use the Dodge skill. To fly a plane you use the Pilot(Fixed wing) skill. To heal someone you use the First Aid skill. You also use the correct stat, so for shooting it is Reflex (Dexterity in D&D).

As a result Interlock is called a skill based system. The major implication of this is that there are no classes in Interlock games. To make a character you just choose skills, and your skill package is what determines how your character plays. (In standard Cyberpunk there are Roles which are just pre-made sets of skill packages)

 

Also note that stats don't have modifiers like D&D, they are just straight stats that range between 0 and 10 (most of the time). Skills are also limited to between 0 and 10. So with a d10 + Stat + Skill all roles will fall between 1 and 30. This makes it very easy for the GM to determine difficulty levels. If you want an easy test the difficulty may be a 5, a hard test might be a 20, and a nearly impossible test would be a 30. (situational modifiers do still apply and as a result it is possible to get over a 30, but that is for another time)

 

The Interlock system is also found in a lot of other products like Mekton, Teenagers from outer space, and Gundam Senki.

 

For a bit more information here is the Interlock Wikipedia page. Interlock System Wikipedia

 

 

 

 

About the lack of responses on these forums. From what I can tell there are about 20 very active members here, we like to post a lot, but we will often quickly answer peoples questions. This means we don't need to do a ton of posting. On the plus side, you don't get the uncontrolled firestorm that are the Wizard of the Coast forums.