Master_Drow

The problem that I was having was that with people getting so few starting skill points in cyberpunk that suddenly they were spending 3 or 5 or 10 into starting initiative. This would be between 10% and 25% of their starting amount. I just did not like that the system almost mandated that players take this skill especially since they have so few to start with.

I think I may have misrepresented something, or possibly be misunderstood. So I will try to clarify because I feel that these do function with the normal command/target rules.

The only thing I don't like about my own rules is that for the internet proxies you have to have previously hacked servers and gained some control, but this is very realistic. To make it so they can just get a proxy when the want would mean that servers have almost no security. However I want to change this, any suggestion is welcome. (in the example below you can see this is what takes the most time.)

 

I will run a sample net hack as an example. Two people joe and bob. Joe has 2 for every command and target, Bob has 3 for every command target. They both have 5 for any other stat or skill that might be needed. Both have a +1 decks and 15 firewall. (I know the math is not right this is jut for simplicity)

 

Joe wants to hack bob. But also wants a proxy.

 

Round one.

Joe: I want to set up three proxies on public servers.

Gm: Ok role to infiltrate the first proxy.

Joe: [infiltrate/System] 5+2+2+1d10(5)+1=15

Gm: Ok you get past the firewall and into the server.

Joe: I take a second action and set up a proxy [Control/System], 5+2+2-2+1d10(5)+1 = 13

Gm: You succeed, and (random roll) you are now getting a minus 1 to speed.

Joe: beggars can't be choosers.

 

Round two.

Joe: Another infiltrate. [infiltrate/System] 5+2+2+1d10(3)+1-1=12

GM: Ok, but only because it is a public server in a bar.

Joe: Another action to set up the proxy [Control/System] 5+2+2-2+1d10(7)+1-1=14

Gm: You succeed, and (random roll) you are getting no negative from this server.

Joe: Good.

 

Round three.

Joe: Final infiltrate. [infiltrate/System] 5+2+2+1d10(4)+1-1=14

GM: No good.

Joe: Try again same turn.[infiltrate/System] 5+2+2-2+1d10(9)+1-1=16

Gm: This time you succeed.

Joe: Another action to set up the proxy [Control/System] 5+2+2-4+1d10(5)+1-1=10

Gm: You just barely succeed, and (random roll) again no negative.

Joe: Ok only one negative then.

 

Now Joe will start hacking Bob. If he had desired he could have tried to get another proxy to replace the first that was giving a negative, but this would take more time, and only has a 60% chance of getting a better server.

Joe has 3 random proxies, and a total of -1 to all actions as a result.

 

Round Four.

Joe: Stealth first, going persistent. [Conceal/User] 5+2+2+1d10(8)+1-1=17

 

Round five.

Joe: Now Infiltrate. [infiltrate/System] 5+2+2+1d10(2)+1-1-1=10

Gm: Nope.

Joe: Try again. [infiltrate/System] 5+2+2-2+1d10(9)+1-1-1=15

Gm: That succeeds, Bob gets a detect vs your persistent conceal.

Bob: Rolling for detection. [Detect/System] 5+3+3+1d10(9)+1=21

Gm: Bob succeeds, Joe you don't know this.

Joe: I begin searching for the data I was hired for. [Detect/Database] 5+2+2-4+1d10(7)+1-1-1=11

Gm: No good.

Joe: That is all for now.

 

Bob: Now I begin to trace the intruding signal. [Detect/Comm] 5+3+3+1d10(6)+1=18

GM: You end up at a public server for the phone company.

Bob: That is not right. Ill trace again [Detect/Comm] 5+3+3-2+1d10(3)+1=13

GM: You end up at a public bar server.

Bob: What the hell, where is this guy. Again trace [Detect/Comm] 5+3+3-4+1d10(7)+1=15

Gm: Another public server for a car rental service.

Bob: ... ok well I guess I end my turn...

 

Round Six.

Joe has the initiative.

Joe: I search for the database again. [Detect/Database] 5+2+2+1d10(5)+1-1-1=13

GM: Nope.

Joe: Again. [Detect/Database] 5+2+2-2+1d10(9)+1-1-1=15

Gm: You Found it.

Joe: I download it.

Gm: It will be ready at the start of your next turn.

Joe: I wait.

 

Gm: Bob's turn.

Bob: Back to tracing. [Detect/Comm] 5+3+3+1d10(8)+1=20

Gm: You end up at a private deck, you do not recognize the IP address.

Bob: Finally got you. I locate the deck. [Locate/System] 5+3+3-2+1d10(5)+1=15

Gm: It is in the Café du Nord.

Bob: That is only 3 blocks away.

 

For a local network proxy do the same thing, but you don't need infiltration rolls to set up proxies. However local networks won't act as proxies if you are hacking through the net, security thing. (and balance)

Now there were a ton of things that Bob could have done here but I wanted to show the trace rules. As you can see the entire trace part is very much in the Command/Target architecture. The only part that is time consuming is the setting up of proxies. But that is why I added the part about renting proxy webs. With a proxy web Joe could do the first three rounds in one round. For example

 

Proxy web

Joe: I rent a proxy web, I want 4 proxies.

GM: That will be 10 eb per server per minute, so 40 eb

Joe: I accept the charge.

GM: The web gives you a (random roll) -2 to actions.

Joe: Crappy web, but at least it is cheap.

 

As you can see in a single round Joe now has 4 proxies and he can start hacking Bob.

If Joe was a more experienced hacker he could have already a bunch of servers that he had access to, either by having set up fake accounts on them, or by using a worm that did it for him. As a hacker moves through the game they would collect servers that they have compromised, in the future when they needed them they could just call them up as a free action and then set up the proxy with a simple [Control/System] action. This would remove a bunch of infiltration rolls.

 

 

---------------------------------------------------

As you can see the Gm and player only need to know two things about the proxies. 1) how many proxies the player has. 2) the total negative that the proxies are giving.

Knowing which proxy is what is not needed. In fact I made up the part about the public car rental service, and phone company as Bob got to them. Joe does not care, and actually Bob did not either, all Bob wanted to know was wether or not he had found Joe, I just made the information more interesting.

I don't like that Initiative is a skill. I usually use the version of IP where the players gain IP for a skill by using the skill (or by training). This causes a problem with the Initiative skill where players skill get inflated. Also I have a problem that players often maximize this skill at character creation. Meaning that players who have few skill points end up putting a lot of points into a single skill that they may not want. And players who don't want to focus on combat (Medics, techies, etc.) take it simply so they don't get caught with their pants down. I commonly see players put 5 or more in initiative at character creation, which is a large drain for a single starting skill. I actually started limiting max starting skill just to deal with this problem.

*Note: I normally use the IU rules set.

 

I came up with this work around.

 

 

This represents not only the persons speed but also how well they react to sudden, often unexpected, changes in a situation. This also stops Initiative as a skill and instead makes it more natural talent rather than a learned ability.

 

I would like to know anyones thoughts on this.

I have an idea for trace that I want some feedback on.

 

To trace someone you need the connecting decks ID number (aka IP address), this is apparent if they are connected to your deck. Then you make a Detect/Comm vs an easy difficulty (DV 10). This traces their connected device.

 

If the target is using a proxy then you only back trace to the proxy (you had that ID number instead). Another Detect/Comm DV 10 will allow another back trace (another action, another ID address). Each trace will get you one proxy closer to the target until there are no more proxies left, then you have found the target device. (now you scan, query, hack it, etc.)

 

The negative for a user to use proxies is this. If the proxy has a speed modifier of a negative then the user gets a minus 1 to their decks speed when interacting through the proxy (any action not done solely on the local deck). If the proxies speed modifier is positive, or zero, then the user takes no negative to their speed.

 

Proxies come in two varieties. Local and Internet. Local networks (in the future) use other nearby devices to help reach a signal tower, this means that you can take a device that is far from a signal tower, scatter devices between the tower and the target device, and then get a good signal. The other devices act as signal repeaters. This feature allows a hacker with basic skills to make ad hoc proxies out of the local network, good for hacking other people on the network. The check is an easy Control/Comm DV 10, per proxy (every proxy is an action).

For internet proxies one must first have some control over the proxy device, and then make an easy Control/Comm (or Control/System, GM call) DV 10. Often one can rent time on a proxy web. A proxy web is a bunch of computers set up specifically to proxy, and will automatically do so (single action to connect to the entire web). Proxy webs range in price from 10 to 50 eb per minute, the higher the cost often the better the machines that compose the web (less negatives).

 

 

EDIT: I realized that I forgot to mention something about local networks. Just because a signal is boosted by a local network this does not make it any less secure. The signal will take a random path through the devices in the area, often fluctuating as it tries to get the strongest signal. This means that just because you are using other people devices to boost your devices signal you are not putting your data at risk, since the signal path will change every few seconds (or micro-seconds) any eavesdropper will only get a very very small snippet of your data, not enough to even enough form a word in a text message. Proxies are the exception to this rule, since you are mandating that your signal goes through a specific device if someone were to hack the proxy they could easily eavesdrop on your data.

Also this means that the fewer wireless devices in your area the less secure your data as now your signal has only a handful of devices to choose from.

@Wisdom: Wow I did not realize that their were ANY credits listed, I did not put that their, must be an autofill thing. Anyway, I will defiantly change that right away. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

@Interrupt: if you could give me a more complete list of people who have contributed significantly to this project (I know that some don't visit anymore) or hey anyone who you want to thank even, send me their names (or screen names) and I'll list them right away.

This looks all very good so far after reading things over. A small suggestion for examples.

 

1. A typical decker strategy of spoofing the local Database of a Corporation.

 

2. A More involed run from say a Midwestern LDL through a few sattilite bounces into the Arasaka frame in Tokyo.

 

3. An example of a Use of Tracing Software.

 

Several examples of Deck construction (there will be players who want to mod out thier livelyhood

These are all very good things to address. It had been decided a while back that the examples would largely be done as the last thing, kinda like the icing on the cake.

As for LDL I'm not sure if they exist anymore... and I would also like to know how the tracing software works, no one seems to be able to give me a good answer. The only thing I can get it that we are currently focusing on combat mechanics, story/long term mechanics will be done later.

 

Currently we are focusing on finishing the rules, then we will do examples, and finally a buff and polish. The first part will obviously take the most time, even more so because I seem to be the only one working on this project anymore...

 

If you have any requests for specific rules feel free to request away, I'll try to make them a priority.

Run.Net 1.2.1 Now with programs

 

I realized that I forgot to post the new version.

 

Fixes:

-Basic Program list, adapted from CP2020

-Grammer and spelling fixes

 

To do:

-Program creation Guidelines

-Other types of program lists (probably done as a separate settings book)

-Vehicles

-Drones

-Net Gear

-Anything else that is not software related.

Rockwolf is in the southern side of the state, IIRC. Never met him, and I'm probably biased by the fact that I have a really bad track record with every Californian I have ever met but one. Could be a real prince. You never know.

As a California I don't think we have a bad track record. I wouldn't pull you of a burning building... but we don't have a bad record.

I have finished a list of programs.

I am calling this the Classic Programs list as it is designed to work in any genera. In the future other program lists can be made for specific genera.

If I don't hear any feedback on these programs I will add them to the PDF and post the new PDF version here.

 

 

 

Launching: To launch a program the user must make a Run program/User check. The DV of this check is equal to the programs strength times 4.

Multiple Instances: Unless otherwise noted a program can have an unlimited number of itself running at the same time, as long as it is being run by the registered user.

Strength: How powerful a program is relative to other programs of the same type. When the program is bought/made the strength is determined. Each program has a minimum and maximum strength that it can be created at.

Degradation Time: How long until the program's strength decreases by one. When the strength reaches zero the program ceases to function. Note: In this way the program's strength can drop below the minimum strength listed.

Patch: Increases a programs strength by one, up to the original strength score. Costs 10% of the initial cost per restored point.

Pirating: It is possible to pirate a program. NetWatch removes all pirated programs within minutes of posting so to get a pirated program one has to have online connections in a peer-to-peer network. These networks are exclusive and require subscription. The user pays 25% the cost of the original program (this is the subscription fee). The program stops working in 1/2 the degradation time of the program. The program cannot have multiple instances of itself running. It takes 1d10 minutes to find a program on a pirate network and a library search equal to the programs strength times five.

 

 

Anti-System

 

Memory Hole:

Cost: Str*100

Degradation Time: 3 weeks

Strength: 1 to 5

 

This causes the target system to develop a memory leak. The attacker rolls 1d10 under or equal to double the programs strength. If successful the target deck gets -1 speed until it is rebooted. Only one instance of this program can be in effect on any given target.

 

Overheat:

Cost: Str*300

Degradation time: 2 weeks

Strength: 2 to 5

 

This causes the target system to overheat. The attacker rolls 1d10 under or equal to the programs strength. If successful the target must make a reliability check.

 

Power Surge:

Cost: Str*500

Degradation time: 2 weeks

Strength: 2 to 5

 

This causes the target system to have a power surge. The attacker rolls 1d10 under or equal to the programs strength. If successful the attacker rolls 1d10. 1 to 3 minor system surge target makes a reliability check. 4 to 6 moderate system surge target deck remains active but drops one category of reliability until repaired (repair: 10% of deck cost). 7 to 9 major system surge target deck shuts down and needs repair, the deck can still function (repair: 10% of deck cost). 10 target deck is toast, shuts down, needs repair, no longer functions (repair: 50% of deck cost)

 

 

 

Anti-IC

 

Wise Man:

Cost: Str*50 (150)

Degradation Time: 4 weeks

Strength: 3

 

Wise Man Identifies programs that is launched by another user. The other user must be detected and Wise Man's owner must make a Detect/User on the target, Wise man give a +3 bonus on this roll. Success is determined by the total roll. 5 identifies all strength 1 programs the target currently has launched. 10 identifies all strength 2 and below programs that the target currently has launched. 15 identifies all strength 3 and below programs that the target currently has launched. 20 identifies all strength 4 and below programs that the target currently has launched. 25 identifies all strength 5 and below programs that the target currently has launched. Only one target may be scanned at a time.

 

Persistent Man

Cost: Str*100 (500)

Degradation Time: 3 weeks

Strength: 5

 

Persistent Man is an upgraded version of Wise Man. It works the same as Wise Man except that it constantly scans a target. Persistent Man give a +5 bonus to its identification roll. Whenever the target launches a new program Persistent Man allows its user to make an immediate identification roll. Persistent Man only targets one user at a time.

 

Knight

Cost: Str*250

Degradation Time: 4 weeks

Strength: 1 to 5

 

Knight is a defensive program that targets Anti-System programs. Knight can only attack programs that it knows about, either by Wise/Persistent Man, or another method. Once the program has been identified Knight will attempt to crash the program. This is done by each user rolling opposed Run Program/User the programs strength is used as a modifier on for this roll. If Knight succeeds then the target program crashes. Knight will target one program every turn, it can be set to prioritize specific programs over others, but it will only attack Anti-System type programs.

 

Dark Knight

Cost: Str*300

Degradation Time: 3 weeks

Strength: 1 to 5

 

Dark Knight is a defensive program that targets Anti-Personnel programs. Dark Knight can only attack programs that it knows about, either by Wise/Persistent Man, or another method. Once the program has been identified Dark Knight will attempt to crash the program. This is done by each user rolling opposed Run Program/User the programs strength is used as a modifier on for this roll. If Dark Knight succeeds then the target program crashes. Dark Knight will target one program every turn, it can be set to prioritize specific programs over others, but it will only attack Anti-Personnel type programs.

 

Champion:

Cost: Str*400

Degradation Time: 2 weeks

Strength: 1 to 5

 

Champion is a defensive program that targets Demon programs. Champion can only attack programs that it knows about, either by Wise/Persistent Man, or another method. Once the program has been identified Champion will attempt to crash the program. This is done by each user rolling opposed Run Program/User the programs strength is used as a modifier on for this roll. If Champion succeeds then the target program crashes. Champion will target one program every turn, it can be set to prioritize specific programs over others, but it will only attack Demon type programs.

 

Dragon:

Cost: Str*300

Degradation Time: 3 weeks

Strength: 1 to 5

 

Dragon is a defensive program that targets Anti-IC programs. Dragon can only attack programs that it knows about, either by Wise/Persistent Man, or another method. Once the program has been identified Dragon will attempt to crash the program. This is done by each user rolling opposed Run Program/User the programs strength is used as a modifier on for this roll. If Dragon succeeds then the target program crashes. Dragon will target one program every turn, it can be set to prioritize specific programs over others, but it will only attack Anti-IC type programs.

 

Hand of God:

Cost: Str*1250

Degradation Time: 2 weeks

Strength 2 to 5

 

Hand of God is a defensive program that targets all types of programs, except Black Programs. Hand of God can only attack programs that it knows about, either by Wise/Persistent Man, or another method. Once a program has been identified Hand of God will attempt to crash the program. This is done by each user rolling opposed Run Program/User the programs strength is used as a modifier on for this roll. If Hand of God succeeds then the target program crashes. Hand of God will target one program every turn, it can be set to prioritize specific programs over others. Hand of God can attack any type of program, except Black Programs. If no Program is visible Hand of God will scan an enemy user (never passive users) looking for programs, Hand of God functions like Wise Man but has no bonus to the roll.

 

Grease

Cost: Str*600 (1800)

Degradation Time: 3 weeks

Strength: 3

 

Grease is a program designed to counteract Brain Lock and Satan's Hold. The turn after Brain Lock effects the user Greases gives a 40% chance to escape. It gives a 10% chance to escape Satan's Hold. Grease only allows one attempt, and only one copy of Grease may be active per user. Grease does not work on Black Programs.

 

 

 

Anti-Personel

In order to effect a user with an antipersonnel type program the targets hardware must have been Queried. To run an antipersonnel without knowing the hardware of the target means that it only has a 20% chance of effecting the target.

 

Dry Cleaner:

Cost: Str*500

Degradation Time: 4 weeks

Strength: 1 to 3

 

Dry Cleaner causes the target to feel the need to pee. The target must succeed on a Resist Torture/Drugs (COOL) roll the DV is 5 time the programs strength. if the user fails they must logoff and go to the restroom. This is seen as a humane way to deal with hackers.

 

Erotic:

Cost: Str*400

Degradation time: 4 weeks

Strength: 1 to 5

 

Erotic fills the users UI with various porn while at the same time filling the user with positive feelings. The user makes a Resist Torture/Drugs (COOL) tests with the DV being 5 times the programs strength. On failure the user takes a negative to INT, equal to the programs strength, for the next 1d6 minutes.

 

Brain Lock:

Cost: Str*800 (2400)

Degradation Time: 3 weeks

Strength: 3

 

Brain Lock tries to freeze the user, often so a meatspace location can be determined. The target makes an Endurance (BOD) check DV 15. If the target fails they are frozen for 1d6 turns. NetWatch can determine location in 3 to 4 turns.

 

Satan's Hold:

Cost: Str*1000 (5000)

Degradation Time: 2 weeks

Strength: 5

 

Satan's Hold is a more powerful version of Brain Lock. Satan's Hold tries to freeze the user, often so a meatspace location can be determined. The target makes an Endurance (BOD) check DV 25. If the target fails they are frozen for 2d6 turns. NetWatch can determine location in 3 to 4 turns.

 

Disco:

Cost: Str*600

Degradation Time: 3 weeks

Strength: 1 to 5

 

Disco fills the targets UI will swirling and flashing colors specifically designed to cause micro seizures in the brain. The target makes an Endurance (BOD) check equal to the five times the programs strength. If the target fails their reflex is reduced by half for 1d6 minutes.

 

Good Night:

Cost: Str*1000

Degradation time: 2 weeks

Strength: 3 to 5

 

Good Night works similar to Disco, by using very fast color flashes and by sending rapidly fluctuating signals over the Net the targets brain gets overloaded and shuts down to protect itself, the result is a blackout. The target makes a Resist Torture/Drugs (COOL) check with the DV equal to five times the programs strength. When the user blackout their hardware remains on.

 

 

 

Demon

Demons use state of the art AI to act like users. Specially designed to do one task so that the user does not have to.

Demons are exceptionally large programs that take two processor limit to run.

 

Encore:

Cost: Str*1000 (3000)

Degradation Time: 3 weeks

Strength: 3

 

Encore is launched against one of the users own programs. Whenever that program crashes Encore automatically launches the program the next round. The re-launched program continues to run the same as before it crashed. Encore uses the users stats as its own when trying to re-launch the crashed program.

 

Assistant:

Cost: Str*1500

Degradation Time: 4 weeks

Strength: 1 to 5

 

Assistant helps the user with tasks. The user can task Assistant to launch programs for him/her. When launched the user can include a list of other programs that he/she wants launched as a free action. Assistant will launch one program per turn from this list (in the order give by the user). The launched program is not give any specific orders, but will execute any tasks that it would normally do automatically. Assistant uses the users stats to launch these programs. Assistant can only launch programs of its strength or lower. When all programs on the list have been launched Assistant closes itself. The user can add or remove any number or programs to an active assistants list with an easy Run Program/File check.

 

Secretary:

Cost: Str*1000 (2000)

Degradation Time: 3 weeks

Strength: 2

 

Secretary is used on an meatspace object that the user has access to. Door, cameras, audio microphone, vehicle, etc. The user must maintain a connection to the object. Secretary is tasked to one object. Whenever the tasked object changes in any way secretary alerts the user. Doors opening/closing, cameras moving in non-preprogramed ways, something moving in front of a camera, audio microphone detecting non-background noise, etc.

 

Thug:

Cost: Str*1000 (2000)

Degradation Time: 3 weeks

Strength: 2

 

Thug is run on a hacked system. When launched the user is allowed to add up to two key words to search for. Thug will search any visible database for these key words and will download any file that is associated with them. Will search and download only one database/file per turn

 

Thief:

Cost: Str*2000 (8000)

Degradation Time: 3 weeks

Strength: 4

 

Thief is run on a hacked system. When launched the user is allowed to add up to ten key words to search for. Thief will search any visible database for these key words and will download any file that is associated with them. The user can set thief to only download files that meet a minimum number of key words. Will search and download only one database/file per turn

 

Worm:

Cost: Str*2500

Degradation Time: 1 week

Strength: 1 to 5

 

Worm is run on a hacked system. When launched worm looks for the accepted user database. Once found worms adds a new username and password to the database and then alerts the user to the new information. In the future to log on to the system the user needs to roll 1d10 under twice the worms strength (degradation does not apply to this roll). If the user does not succeed then the username and password had been previously discovered and deleted. Whenever the user logs in their is a 20% chance that the username and password will be discovered on the next system sweep and not be available for any future logins (the user is not logged off their current session, they also do not know the result of this roll until they try to login in the future).

 

Monitor:

Cost: Str*1000 (1000)

Degradation time: 6 weeks

Strength: 1

 

Monitor checks the users vitals every turn, if they fall outside the parameters the Monitor logs the user off the Net. Good Night and Disco will both trigger this condition. Brain Lock, Satan's Hold, Erotic, and Dry Cleaner will not. Monitor does not work against Black programs.

 

 

 

Black Programs

Black Programs are designed to circumvent the hardware and software that protects the user from lethal effects. Black Programs only work at full strength, if they degrade at all they no longer function.

All Black programs are either military are illegal, consumer access to these programs is always illegal.

 

Flatline:

Cost: Str*3000 (15000)

Degradation Time: 2 weeks

Strength: 5

 

Flatline is a combination of a specialized Satan's Hold and Good Night. The effect is that the target is locked into their hardware and then bombarders them with images, noises, and signal feedback. Flatline is specifically designed to not allow the user to blackout. The user must make a Endurance (BOD) check of 25. On failure they are locked into their machine. The next turn, and in every subsequent turn, the user makes a Death Save. The targets machine is left on. The special Satan's Hold and Good Night can only be used by Flatline.

 

Al Capone

Cost: Str*5000 (25000)

Degradation Time: 2 weeks

Strength: 5

 

Named after the vicious Chicago mob boss of the 1920's Al Capone is a program of equal cruelty. First the program uses a special Good Night to knockout the target, Resist Torture/Drugs (COOL) DV 25. Then Al Capone searches the users hardware for all contacts and using these and information available on the general Net Al Capone finds the targets Friends and Family. It then proceeds to use a special Flatline black program (included) to kill as many of them as possible, one at a time. The original target is left alive. Al Capone finds a targets contacts in 3d6 minutes. The target is knocked out for 1d10+3 minutes. The special Flatline and Good Night can only be used by the Al Capone program.

 

Shrink

Cost: Str*1500 (6000)

Degradation time: 2 weeks

Strength: 4

 

Shrink first locks a person into their machine Resist Torture/Drugs (COOL) DV 20 and then bombards them with horrific images and subliminal messages. This process takes 1d10+10 minutes to complete. Afterwards the target makes a Resist Torture/Drugs (COOL) DV 25. On failure the target develops a new mental disorder.

DOC we need 300 cc of Epi here! Stat!

 

Charge the paddles to 2000 MW!

 

CLEAR!

 

Oh good it is still alive...

 

------------------------------------------

 

I have been looking over the program list from the original CP2020, here is what I learned.

 

Most of these programs are either replaced partially or entirely by basic Run.Net commands. Some are now unfeasible. But a few can still be made possible in Run.Net. I think that these programs are a good starting point for making Run.Net programs. I understand people want other types of programs that boost user abilities, etc. But these programs work with almost any other type of program system we develop. Plus we can get back to doing stuff.

 

Anti-System: Programs that damage hardware.

 

Anti-IC: Programs that Crash other programs.

 

Anti-Personel: Programs that lock the user into their hardware so they can't escape. Also Programs that hurt the user in some way. (direct neural shock already ruled out.) See this thread for more info.

 

Demons: Programs that run programs. Limited or task specific AI.

 

If we build for these four categories then we can at least get started on programs. These programs need to be genera neutral to some extent. As genera specific programs (brain hacking, etc.) will be dealt with later.

 

 

 

------------------------------------------

 

I have a few questions that came up during my reading.

 

1) In Run.Net how does one backtrace?

 

2) The Secure command in Run.Net, how does it work? Does it replace firewalls/IC? Does it augment them?

Ok so I have combined the rules to date and made them into a nice and fancy.... PDF!!!!!

 

Get yours today!

Run.Net Beta 1.2 PDF

(programs not included)

 

It uses the Stickied thread as a base but I have updated it with the new data from this thread. I have not included programs, only briefly touch on decks, and Items are also not included. It is currently not all that pretty but I have done a bit of formatting. I have also edited for grammar, spelling, constancy, and clarity. I have also locked the PDF so that people can't copy it, meaning they have to come here and talk about it if they want changes (Muahahahah!)

 

 

Well there goes my Wednesday... worth it.

 

 

 

 

(People can request unlocked versions I just don't want our ideas stolen by another party)

 

Original stickied thread I referenced (http://vfte.cyberpunk.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=8053)

I'm working on a proper equipment list, slowly. It'll be here soon enough. Actually, i'd like to get Master Ronin in on that googledoc next time I see him Googlechat or somewhere...

Could I get added to that as well, I have not heard much recently about any work pertaining to Run.Net so I am interested to see what has been going on...

 

Actually, i'd like people's opinion on the ICE numbers here.

Myself I would bump the numbers up a bit, 3 to 5 points. Just because I am seeing some minor inflation in the players numbers (mostly due to deck speed and programs).

 

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Also I think now is a good time to discuss the difference between IC and Firewalls.

 

Firewall: Stops any un-authorized access to a machine from outside sources. Makes sure the attacker never gets in.

IC: Attacks any un-athorized users. Effects range from back tracing to black attacks. IC does not stop the users initial hack. It simply deals with the attacker once they are in the system.

 

Analogy: Breaking into a house.

Firewall: umm... a wall... Better firewall = better wall, brick and stuff, less windows/doors, etc.

IC: The 35mm Auto-turret set up in the living room.

 

So I am thinking that you mean the decks Firewall, not IC, in the stat blocks above.

 

so how close are all of use impatiently waiting (grin) minions, to seeing a PDF of the core rules?

 

Depends on exactly what you want. Right now I could create an un-official beta version but it won't have any programs or equipment, it would just have the rules for hacking.

If you want all of the goodies, well then it could be a little while. (at this rate expect a Christmas present, or an easter basket...)

I need to go through all these posts and re-read them again and I will, but for now this is just a notes post.

(The post directly above, especially, deserves a long read!)

 

Me and Interrupt are going through the sequence for lethal attacks.

 

Essentially - Lethal Programs will let you carry out certain specific actions determined by the Program rules (...don't look at me like that).

Yeah, I sometimes like to do long posts as it allows me to summarize exactly what I am thinking and how I got that idea. The idea is that if I post my reasons and ideas then maybe we can all understand each others reasons and come up with a great idea that everyone likes/can tolerate.

 

I also agree with the basic tenants outlined in Comp's post. It should be harder to attack a user than it is to just boot them from the net. A deck will have extra security when it comes to the user. Can't sell many units if the users keep getting melted brains, bad for business and all.

 

 

 

Side note: It would be convenient to somehow combine this thread and the main discussion thread as we are now ready to work on programs. A new main discussion thread may be in order just to discuss programs in great length and detail. Just a suggestion.

I see the problem now... It's like we were told to build a house, but we all have different ideas on what a house should involve. one story vs two, hallways, number of bathrooms, etc. What we need to do is not define the house but the architecture. That way we can all have our own ideal house but also follow some sort of order between them.

Thus I am proposing that we make a set of guidelines and make suggestions for a few of the major ideas that we have. The most important thing is that we put into the rules that these are simply suggestions and that the GM should feel free to change any, all, or none of the ideas. However we suggest that he follows the basic parameters as they are already designed to work with the Run.Net rules. So below I will explain what I have said earlier and make this all much more clear. (expanding upon maleks post)

 

Basic Parameters (the architecture):

Strength: Each program has a strength score between 1 and 5. Strength is how well the program preforms it function. All stats of the program are equal to its strength unless specifically noted. This is not representative of how much better the program is vs other types of programs, but simply how good it is vs programs of the same type. (types defined below)

Example: Think of this like a car race. There are two cars, a normal everyday car and a sports car. They are going to go around this track full of twists and turns. Now we could define every part of the cars, their speed, acceleration, turning radius, how well they handle, the types of tires they have, etc. Or we can simply say the sports car is strength 5 and the normal car is strength 2. Now whenever you need to make a check for those two cars you simply roll their strength numbers and make the check, no complex sheets of numbers to keep track of. The idea works the same for programs. We could breakdown every single little stat or we can just make a single number that is representative of the programs power as a whole. However this score is useless to compare various types of programs. It would be like comparing cars to planes, sure they both have a lot in common, but they are also totally different in many major ways, a strength 2 plane is better than a strength 4 car. Strength is like that, works great for comparing within a single type of program but sucks when comparing types vs other types. (I needed to make this long winded analogy because some people seem to be confused on this issue.)

 

Degradation time: This time represents how quickly the strength of the program decreases. When the strength reaches zero or below the program is useless, just a waste of space. Powerful program types degrade faster, they require a level of precision that more general programs not rely on. Degradation can be fixed by patching a program. (patches are often free/low cost for legal/registered programs)

Example: Back to the car vs plane analogy. Most people get their car tuned up every year or so, but airplanes need maintenance every few months. The reason being is that planes are much more powerful than cars but as a result need maintenance more often. Car don't handle G-forces while a fighter jet does. Planes are more precise machines than cars, and a single failure in any part of the plane can lead to a flaming fiery death. But when a car breaks down you replace the missing part and move along. The more powerful the machine the faster it can breakdown and it leads to much worse consequences. (Basically the stronger the program type the faster it will degrade, this is because every part of it needs to be working just right or else the entire program suffers. leading to a loss of strength.)

 

Prerequisites/Activation Conditions: Sometimes a program must meet a certain condition before it can be used. Not all programs have these conditions. However, very powerful programs often do, they require a level of precision that more general programs not rely on. (Also used to balance out a programs power.)

Their are many different types of conditions the might need to be met. A few are listed below. These are just a few ideas, GM's are encouraged to make up new ideas as they see fit.

Warmup time: The program needs to analyze the target for several rounds before it can do its function.

Specificity: The program may only work on cameras, but not other devices.

Super Specificity: The program only works on the cameras made by Oni-Sendia, model 23-A to be exact.

Code Specificity: The program only works on/against systems that were coded by a certain person or corporation.

Dependency: The program requires that another program is also running. e.x. An infiltration program may require that a certain stealth program be active else it wont run properly, or at all.

 

Cost: The more powerful the program (wether by strength or type) the more it costs. Cost is not just money cost, but also difficulty to program. The more powerful a program, the more money it takes to buy, and the longer it takes to code. Power is defined by the programs effect(s) and how quickly and efficiently the program can accomplish its goal.

Example: Car vs Airplane. Airplane is more powerful than the car, it can fly (its effect). If the two were to race the car would have to go through the twists and turns, while an airplane would fly to the end in a straight line, and at a faster speed. The airplane can more quickly and efficiently accomplish its goal. But an airplane costs much more than a car, and takes more time and resources to build.

 

Effect/Type: What the program does (which determines what type of program it is). This can range from useless to earth shattering. The more powerful the program the more perquisites should to be added, the faster the degradation time, and the higher the cost (money or otherwise), final balancing is up to the GM. Suggestions are provided, however the GM is the final boss on just what is and is not allowed.

 

(A quick note about type: The type is determined by the programs effect and has absolutely no game value what so ever. It is just a nice way to separate programs by how they function, but does not mean anything. It is like separating cars based on manufacture, does not really matter but is a nice way to organize things)

 

By combining these ideas we have a basic layout of what programs need. So now we can talk about types of programs.

There are several types, a GM is encouraged to choose which ones they want in a game, if any:

(Note: power goes in this order weak, low, moderate, high, extreme. Degradation time is how often degradation happens)

Skill boosting: gives a bonus to a skill (high to extreme power, degradation time: weekly)

Stat boosting: gives a bonus to a stat (extreme power, degradation time: weekly)

Zero Day Exploit (ZDE): abuses a bug in the target program/software, extremely fast degradation time. (ranges from moderate power to extreme power, degradation time: daily)

Automated program: This automates specific command//target functions so that the user can focus on other task (ranges from low to moderate power, degradation time: monthly or bi-weekly)

Specialized program: This program has a very specific purpose, and only works under certain conditions. e.x. fires a certain orbital laser. (extreme power, degradation time: only if the target system is updated/change)

Intrusion Countermeasure (IC): These programs scan the system they are in looking for unauthorized activities. When such an activity is found they "fix" the situation. (low to high power, degradation time: monthly)

IC-Breaker: This program specializes in stoping IC from either noticing the activity, or stops it from doing anything about it. (low to moderate power, degradation time: weekly)

Ghost-Diving: Sometimes called brain hacking. This program scans and allows access to a human brain, however altering the brain is rarely achievable with this method (various power, degradation time: weekly)

Artificial intelligence (AI): These are sentient programs. Their intelligence can range from hamster to super human. (extreme power, Degradation time: none/GM choice if any)

Other program: This can be anything that the GM wants. (various power, degradation time: GM choice)

 

 

Examples: These are a bunch of example programs that fall into the categories above, these are by no means the only way these programs can be made these are simply one example out of an infinite number of possibilities. Players are encouraged to change anything about a program to work better, subject to GM discretion.

 

Skill Boosting (infiltrate//modem): By analyzing a modems firewall this programs makes suggestions to the user as how to best bypass the firewall. This results in the user getting a bonus equal to the programs strength to overcome the targets firewall.

 

Stat Boosting (empathy): By analyzing a persons facial expressions, body language, and voice tone the program makes suggestions as to how the user can best interact with the person. This analysis takes 3 rounds of continuous study to take effect. This results in the user getting a bonus to his empathy when interacting with the target. The bonus is equal to the programs strength.

 

Zero Day Exploit (ZDE): The recently updated firewalls of the FBI's criminal database have accidentally been left in test mode. This means that a generic Admin username and password will allow anyone to access the database. This program uses a database of thousands of generic usernames and passwords to determine which one is being used. The correct one is told to the user. However the FBI will quickly find this mistake and patch it within a few days.

 

Automated Program (cypher/signal): This program cyphers the users signal every (6 - Strength) rounds, this stops enemies from eavesdropping on the users conversation for any extended period of time. The cyphers DV to bypass is equal to 3 x Strength + 1d10. (the 3 x Strength is equal to stat + command + target, all of which are equal to the programs strength. e.x. strength 2 is 6+1d10 because the stat is 2, the command is 2, and the target is 2)

 

Specialized Program: This program is specifically designed to download the research database off the Mitsubishi mainframe and send it to a secure server of Honda. However the program has to be used directly on database, so access must be gained to it. It will take 30 seconds for the entire database to be transferred. After the program has completed the download it will cause a the Mitsubishi server to reformat its drive, erasing all traces of anything stored on it, this program will be deleted in the process.

 

Intrusion Countermeasure (IC) (Scan/System, Secure/System): Every turn this program scans/system its home system for unauthorized activities. The scans power is equal to its 3 x Strength + 1d10 (see automated program above for explanation). If the program finds such activity it alerts its user and then tries to secure/system. The secures power is equal to its 3 x Strength + 1d10. It will re-secure every turn until the intruder is removed. (note: it will always use the new secure DV even if it is lower, the IC assumes the intruder has bypassed its previous secure unless the intruder is removed, then the IC assumes it has succeeded.)

(versions of this program also exist for databases, modem, or almost any other target. Versions also exist that use other ways to stop an intruder.)

 

Ghost-Diving: This program needs to have access to a target that is plugged into an accessible modem by DNI cables. This program will then scan the targets brain (memories, ideas, and thoughts) and show the information to its user. It also has the ability to download the targets memories, ideas, or thoughts into a specialized database that can be accessed later by the user. note: this program must be user when accessing such databases as they use unique, and complex, coding methods.

(versions of this program might exist that allow a user to "edit" a persons brain, this allows a user to download the special databases either to a targets brain, or to his own.)

 

Artificial Intelligence (AI): This program is designed to run an automatic auto shop. It knows how to fix any car that is on the market. By controlling a series of robots and automated equipment this AI can fix a vehicle no matter what condition it is. And because it never gets tired it can work around the clock for only the cost of energy.

(more complex versions of AI exist, they can do anything that a normal human can do, some are even better at it. Some are specialized for specific tasks.)

 

Other program: Anything the GM wants, from a program that burns down houses, to turning on light switches when a specific person walks in the room. Anything that does not fit into another category goes here, and the only limitations that are placed on the program are the ones the GM puts on it.

 

 

 

A program sheet (if listed in a book) would be as follows.

Name:

Strength:

Cost:

Degradation Time:

Prerequisites:

Effect:

 

(Note how type is not on this list. The type is determined by the programs effect and has absolutely no game value what so ever. It is just a nice way to separate programs by how they function, but does not mean anything. It is like separating cars based on manufacture, does not really matter but is a nice way to organize things)

 

(how the hell did this take 3 hours to write O_o)

(p.s. I'm totally tired of car analogies)

(p.p.s I did not spellcheck this, sorry)

Forget the big stuff, the small stuff will have all of the real goodies...

Exactly, I see that you are thinking like a good runner.

I might be wrong here, but I thought that the bulk of hacking was fooling the system you're after into letting you create a user account so you can access it. The bulk of a firewall crack, if I recall correctly, is fooling the firewall into recognizing you as an authorized source of input for the protected system in the same general concept. Am I incorrect in my thinking here? I don't think that it's very reasonable to treat CP firewalls as basic port scanners as they have evolved well beyond this level of use in today's security apparatus.

The thing is that hacking can take many forms but most of the time it takes hours/days to crack a system. We have simply said that all hacking longer than a few rounds is role played out. We do address the "quick" hacking that happens is a few rounds. This is less about finding a username and password and more about using an existing security exploit. An example would be trying to disguise your signal as basic web traffic so the computer lets it in. Sometimes it is just that people have not set their network sharing privileges correctly and the hacker is abusing those. The thing is nowadays hacking is normally not that fast. It takes a lot of time and patience as a hacker figures out exactly how to get past each level of security.

 

Another reason that finding a username and password is not always a good idea is that computers do not allow more than one of each username to login at any given time. So if you were hacking a personal deck (most hacking) then their would only be one username, and it would belong to the legitimate user, who is most likely on the deck. So that idea is a no go. There are ways to add a new username to a system but more often than not that involves a worm or virus that the legitimate user downloaded and used. Again that is not something that people often do in combat.

 

The thing to remember is that when you are hacking you are simply the puppet master that is commanding programs on your deck. So when you run the infiltrate//modem command it is not trying one exploit, it is trying hundreds every second, one of those might work on any given deck. And that is how we are explaining fast hacking.

 

DV10 is a much better scale for a non-firewall system as even an unskilled user has a decent chance of "accidentally" getting through. A skilled user? I wouldn't even need a roll as a PC with a stat + skill over 10 is a dime a dozen.

That is actually a good point, I was busy thinking about the DV layout in the normal rules. Well that makes the math less nice. (5 x strength) +10 = Firewall DV

Wow comp post ninja'd me, posting while I was typing. Feel free to read anyway, but he covered all of the important stuff.

 

Kind of curious as to why you would want to use skill as the basis for the number of programs running versus the quality of the equipment. I think that the MU in use should be the factor for designating final stats

Simply because we decided to remove MU from the game. We see it as just another stat that needed to be tracked and was not very important. Instead we are going with the idea that any number of programs can be loaded on the deck, but only a certain number of them at a time can be run at any given time.

 

The rule as it stands now is

A runner can run a number of persistent actions [and/or programs] equal to his Interface Skill + his gear Speed value, to a minimum of +1. If you exceed this value you immediately must make reliablity saves each round or risk failure of some kind, determined by the GM.

 

This even stops the "rape stick" scenario that you outlined. Since the interface skill ranges from 1 to 10, and deck speed ranges from -3 to +3 so a maximum of 13 for a world class runner with a top of the line civilian deck.

 

We could take into account the many things that you listed (speed, MU, skills, hard drive fullness, etc.) However an executive decision was made [after a ton of debating] and so we are using the users interface skill, and the decks speed as the program total able to be run. This takes into account the users skill and the decks power in two simple numbers. Less numbers = less complication = faster gameplay = more fun per hour.

 

Firewall difficulties are easy to do as evidenced by this chart I thought up in well under 2 minutes:

No firewall- 10

Lousy firewall or outdated off-the-shelf firewall- 15

Decent off-the-shelf firewall or a non-updated good firewall- 20

Good firewall with consistent updates- 25 (expensive)

SOTA firewall with constant full-tilt boogie IT support- 30 (ridiculously expensive)

We are still working on Firewalls, IC, and programs. This list is not bad, although not having a firewall should be a DV 5 check to surpass. Actually a good way to deal with this is to give firewalls a strength value ranging from 1 to 5. Then set the DV to surpass the firewall to (5 x strength) + 5

So strength 1 is DV 10, 2 is DV 15, 3 is DV 20, 4 is DV 25, and 5 is DV 30.

So the check is Infiltrate vs Firewall DV. If the runner wins then they are logged in, if the Firewall wins then the person is not able to get in, may even get reported to Netwatch.

 

However we may just have firewalls act as a detection program that scans people as they log in. So it would be a one time check vs the runners stealth. If the Firewall beats the persons stealth then it sets an alert on the runner and then the runner is swarmed by IC and enemy runners. That is unless the person uses a legitimate log in (social engineering for the win!)

Isn't the sword just giving a bonus over fist? That contradicts your initial premise.

I would argue that the sword is augmenting the users abilities, the thing that I did not like is when the swords was a +3 flaming sword. The +3 flaming does not belong. In several of my games with Malek we had programs that gave a +5 to infiltrate (or similar). I found these grossly overpowered, and just made the purpose of infiltration checks almost laughable because they were suddenly very easy. The cyberpunk DV system does not react well to large bonuses, and anytime we include these we need to limit them as well, else the system gets broken. So I say we just eliminate them.

Make programs a simple name and strength. So a cypher//signal strength 3, now when you need to roll just use 3 for everything. What is the programs skill? 3. what it its stat? 3. what do your roll? stat+command+target+1d10 or 3+3+3+1d10. Problem solved and is very simple to keep track of.

Now I am also advocating special programs which is the second idea, by using both ideas you can cover just about everything imaginable. The first idea is for more common programs, the second idea is for the programs that are harder to make, buy, and acquire in any way.

 

The problem with this is that the Command//Target list already is using programs - they are assumed in the system and invisible. There is nothing you can do with a computer at all without the aid of some form of program, therefore programs are an inherent function of Interfacing with the Net. We are currently only discussing the concept of programs that go above and beyond this essential base.

I always assumed the programs were just inherent to the system but still accessible, like paint, word, or a web browser. They exist in the system but one could make a program to automatically uses these inherent programs. So you could have the web browser automatically log into your favorite porn site every time you press the enter button. My first proposal was to just automate some of the basic programs that come with the system. By automating them in very precise ways one makes a basic program. For example, if the computer detects an intruder then it alters you. But you could have the computer programed to automatically alter you and then shut down all incoming ports attempting to sever the intruders connection. This is not doing anything that the computer cannot already do, it is simply automating the task.

 

Price as a primary limiting factor is no-go.

I was using it as one limiting factor, i just forgot to type the rest.

The idea is that you can buy the programs or make the programs.

Buying is expensive

Making them takes a lot of time, weeks at least, months are more common.

As such the PC will want to buy them as it saves them all of this valuable time. However one can steal programs and then suddenly cost and time are nothing. Shadowrun attempted to solve this problem but they made it too complex. However I am adapting (and simplifying) it for our purpose. Basically you make it so that programs are registered to a single user. Only that person can use it, and only on their devices. If a person hacks a program (a few days of work) so that it does not have to be registered then it will not get updates and becomes obsolete within a short period of time (often a matter of weeks). Also Netwatch will have cracked down on any hacked programs from just floating around on the web. This means that Datahavens have to exist where the hacked programs can be hidden. These are like exclusive clubs that are accessed by invite only, often a fee is required. In short, getting a hacked program requires having access to a Datahaven and paying 10% of the original programs cost (the fee is included in this cost for simplicity).

Benefit: Programs for 1/10 the price

Negative: Need access to Datahaven, and programs become obsolete very quickly.

By doing this the GM can limit access to hacked programs. Maybe the Datahaven does not have it, or Netwatch has just shutdown the illegal Datahaven and are hauling people off to jail. Now you have a storyline. This is how you balance the programs.

 

Strength is a good idea, but your initial paragraph argued against a simple numerical strength value.

My gripe was that programs giving straight bonuses to skills are very hard to make balanced. Strength in this case simply rates programs vs other programs. So a strength 3 programs that cracks a firewall is better than a strength 1 program, probably works faster or some other benefit.

This does not however give a bonus to a skill such as infiltrate because we are already having a problem with hacking being too easy for the standard Difficulty Values laid out in the core rules. To add bonuses to skills would only exacerbate the problem.

 

Some of these are interesting ideas but my problem here is that they completely negate the Command//Target function. If we allow programs which supersede our whole skill system then we are effectively telling players to forget Interface and put all their effort into programming.

By balancing out programming by making it take a long time to make then we reduce this problem. Basically make programs hard to get, and then make them good but not overpowering.

 

The idea is that a interface 3 runner is good but would be better if he had the right programs, now he could make them himself over the course of months (per program) or he could go and steal them. But if he steals them then they only last for a few weeks. During those weeks he will be closer to an interface 5 runner but only if he can use his programs, which are designed for very specific actions. So if the runner gets ahold of an IC-breaker now he has an advantage vs IC but he is still just as crappy as before if he were to doing anything vs another runner, or if he needed to infiltrate, cypher, scan, locate, etc. Small benefit for a program that takes such much to acquire.

 

I am absolutely, unequivocally, unrepentantly, immutably against anything to do with using Icons/Avatars as a functional element of the rules!

Well that is very apparent. Works for me as it simplifies things a lot and stops a lot of potential hazards.

I myself don't agree with most of the ideas laid out above. I don't really like programs that give a bonus on a skill, which is often as powerful or more powerful than the players skill. (also if I wanted a narrative I would play a diceless RPG)

I see a program as just tool that expands upon the runners basic skills. Like how a sword is a tool that is used in a melee. The tool should not be required to play a character, but should instead be a limited advantage to the character. (ex swords hurt more than a fist does.)

 

I propose that the majority of programs just be automated lists of command/target actions. Basically you have the computer do some of the work for you so you can deal with more important things.

A great example would be encrypting the signal that your team is using. If one were to do this via persistent action then you would encrypt the signal once and that would be that. However if someone wants to break into that signal they only have to get past the encryption once. Now a program could create a rolling encryption. Here the program re-encrypts the signal every few turns so that if someone does manage to break the encryption they will only have access to the network until the signal is re-encrypted, in a few turns. The only difference here is that the persistent action is a fire and forget setup, while the program is a recursive setup.

This could even lead to a very simple pricing structure based upon the equivalent skill of the program and the frequency which it activates. For more complex programs the price would have to include multiple command/target.

 

For example $100 buys you one rank of a command and target skill. So a program that uses Cypher/Signal at rating 3 costs $300. Or a program that uses Cypher/Signal 3 and Login/modem 2 will cost $500.

Each program activates only once per turn, but for programs that don't need an action every turn every turn that it delays decrease the price by 10%. So the Cypher/Signal rating 3 cost $300 if it re-rencrypts every turn, but if you only want it to re-encrypt every 3 turns it costs $210. This is a nice savings but decreases the effectiveness of the program. (all of these prices are off the top of my head and are used for simple maths, final pricing open to negotiation.)

 

By making the program act as a helping hand for the runner it makes the runner a bit more effective while using the system of command/target that we already know works very well (we built it after all). As for balance, a program that uses a single command/target skill costs up to $500, the same price as an average assault rifle. Seems fairly balanced to me, one is a tool used in meat space the other a tool in virtual space. But again prices could be increased/decreased for balancing.

(When rolling for a program use the programs skill as its stat. So the Cypher/Signal 3 rolls 3 + 3 + 1d10. Again not as good as a runner but helps the runner with the little things that need to be done, but take time.)

 

Now there should probably be a few other types of programs, like IC and stuff but the idea above should be the average program that the average user has. The idea below is for special programs that are more unique and are more expensive. Also idea one and idea two be used together in a program, if desired.

 

For the other programs I say we make a list of good attributes for programs, give each attribute a point cost, then allow the players to mix and match as they see fit. Final price will be the total point cost times a multiplier (ex $50 per point). This is easy to do, allows the GM to quickly add new attributes he wants, and is very modular meaning we can add more attributes later if we want. Also each program needs to have a strength, the higher the strength the more it costs. Use strength as a multiplier (ie strength 3 is 3x more expensive than strength 1). This is very similar to how the basic drug rules work in Datafortress/Interlock Unlimited.

 

For example we could have

Sacrifice- 3 points- the program takes the next attack that would normally hurt the runner. Then the program crashes and will need to be relaunched. (could even add a delay between crash and launch).

Shield- 2 points - reduces the damage done to the runners icon, the reduction is equal to the strength of the program x2.

Mind fuck- 5 points- On a successful hit this attribute causes an enemies User Interface to change randomly, causing much confusion. this reduces the enemy runners skill by the programs strength for a number of turns.

Jack Hammer- 1 point- reduces enemy firewall by the programs strength for a number of turns, but automatically alerts every user and IC to your presence.

Padded Hammer- 5 points- the same as jack hammer but allows one to remain hidden from other users and IC.

Authenticate- 3 points- every turn the programs checks the Identity of one random user, if the user's ID does not match records then the programs alerts its user and any IC in the system.

IC- 2 points - the program attacks any user that has triggered an alert. The program will continue to attack until the user is no longer present, or the alert is cancelled.

 

(again all numbers are just ballpark and need to be balanced)

 

When attacking a person in the net really you are just attacking their Icon not the actual person. This is often done by destabilizing the persons hardware or connection. However black programs do exist (often hard to find). Black programs actually damage the users physical body in some way or another, often by overloading the persons senses, dealing short term memory damage, or causing psychosis. (all up for debate)

As for attacking we should just copy how the meat space does this, but since cover and BTM don't exist this will be a simplified version. Basically one rolls to hit against a flat DC (like meat space), then rolls damage, then the defender reduces the damage by his/her shield and takes the rest. Icons need to have some sort of health system, probably based on signal or deck or something. (This needs to be seriously thought about as it opens a whole messy can of worms, and is in no way supported by the current system.)

May I suggest one more thing from a sort of Admin point of view. Not that Im your Admin, but from that line of thinking, just to be clear.

 

Once you get something the way you like it, lock it in.

You mean like this post that is stickied?

http://vfte.cyberpunk.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=8053

 

Right now we are polishing the running rules, then a quick (relatively) talk about programs and items and we are done.

So we are getting there. If comp, interrupt, malek, and others were less busy with a real life then we could be done super fast, but life comes first I guess

 

I'm happy with that solution. I think that should be a general principle when it comes to seizing control of hardware.

Also I am all on board for the new program/persistent limit.

What should we tackle next?

• Another Netrunner may have a Driving skill of 5 and a Control//Vehicle of 9 but will still only be able to make Driving skill checks at 5 since the ability to hack control of the vehicle doesn't make them a racing driver.

So you are adding the control to vehicle to get 9 here? because I thought the cap was 5 for command and target individually.

 

Other than that question I see how this works. You use the smaller of the normal skill and the net skill to determine your skill number when driving/piloting/controlling things via the net.

I would assume this extends to all things like if you were to repair a car by hacking a local automated car factory you would use either the repair skill or the sum of control//remote, whichever is lower.

Wait if pilot:drone is a skill then what is the command//Remote for? I thought that was the thing used for drones...

I suggest that we add basic ideas or rules for making programs, similar to how the drug rules were laid out in CP2020, but we have a supplemental book for just programs.

 

Same for drones and equipment.

Works for me!

 

Now on to Programs, Drones, and Items!!!