Master_Drow

I am extremely happy that I was able to get my point across. I was afraid that I would simply confuse people.

The reason that it took me so long to write was that I had a lot of ideas I was working on for several months but I had never written them. So I had to consolidate and debug at the same time.

 

You would be correct in assuming that people of the same initiative would move at the same time in a set. The only thing the set system does is allow everyone a shot at doing something, before dying horribly. I was never very keen on the guy who could empty a clip reload and then empty again all while the other guy plays retarded monkey. But by breaking the round into increments it means the people react more at the same time, such as in real life. You don't have one guy shoot then the other. They are all shooting! At everything! That is the chaos of battle. And I believe the set system emulates that the best.

 

 

Companero is correct that this is does not fit into the standard interlock turn system, and it was not really meant to. Currently it is meant for the internet turn as outlined in the Run.Net framework posted in this forum. I saw that the system had a Speed component that implemented many turns into a single round and I saw a major problem of Hammering would quickly arise. Normal Cyberpunk address this by giving you a few actions and then allowing you to buy extras but at an extreme cost. This lead to a quick falloff of success and thus was its own deterrent. And, while I do have a few problems with the current system (I have an outstanding post on the IU boards, that I may bring to VFTE) I find that it works for its intended purpose.

 

As for the hammer effect in the set system. If the guy is getting 3 or 4 actions per your one then that means one of two things.

1. The opponent is super strong and you will die in any system.
2. You are super weak and should die.

Since you are dead anyway I don't consider it a failure. The super strong should beat the weak (99.99999% of the time). The purpose of the Set system is to make sure that two guys of similar power don't end their fight in the first half a round, because nothing is worse than popping the final boss, or getting popped, the first round. That is the issue that I addressed.

 

 

No matter the system the goal is to try and get the actions per person down to one or two before allowing the other guy his shot. And that is something we can all agree on.

 

On a final note I can see how you generally find initiative is not needed, but I find that it is always arising in combat, really depends on the GM I guess.

 

I look forward to future rules idea, and maybe even some testing! Nothing better than a stress test!

 

Ok I think this is an important enough thread to Necro.

 

The first thing we need to address is the DNI (Direct Neural Interface)

• How much control is given to the DNI
• What sort of defense the DNI has
• What is vulnerable via the DNI

By looking at these three thing we can formulate what kind of affects programs can have on a jacked in user.

Trode users face similar threats but because of not being plugged in they are reduced significantly. All other forms of use do not any of these threats, except hardware threats.

 

The DNI is only be given access to what it needs in order to work properly. Those childhood memories for your 1st birthday, not important. The fact that your girl is about to leave you for another man, also not important. So, what is important?

The DNI will be accessing these parts of the brain. Visual cortex, Auditory Cortex, Touch/Feel cortexes, and possibly tastes. So basically all of the cortexes dealing with the senses, it is a direct sensory input device after all.

 

Now in conjunction to the things absolutely needed we have to assume that built in safety measures are included. So digestive awareness awareness (hunger, bladder, etc.) Also we can assume that basic temperature control is needed (cant have your users burning to death in a house fire).

Now these functions are probably hidden unless a threshold is met so the user only feels them when absolutely needed but not all of the time. Any attempt to abuse these will have to surpass this threshold, and the further the better.

 

Anything else is not required for DNI input.

 

The DNI will have built in defense against surge control. Even if one was to hack the users box and cause it to overload the DNI would automatically turn off (diodes do this and cannot be hacked). Now this would probably leave the user with massive sensory shock as they are being ripped from the virtual world into the real one. It would be like walking out of a dark room into a very bright one, times about a thousand. This is a hardware safeguard.

 

Also the DNI would have regulators that stop the person from feeling anything beyond a certain threshold. Sure they could walk through fire in the virtual world but that does not mean they feel like they are being burned alive, more like toasty, but not uncomfortable. These regulators are there for basic protection from the internet. These are software safeguards.

 

The thing is this, in my time in Shadowrun (yell at me later) they bring up an interesting point. While these software safeguards are in place to protect the user they also lead to another level of processing that the users box has to do. So instead of the internet coming directly to the user it is run through a series of checks and are manipulated to fit within the defined specifications. Now this extra level of processing would lead to a slow down between the user and the internet. And any slowdown when you are doing multiple actions per second could be drastic. So some users opt to disable, or relax, these software safeguards. This gives the benefit of faster speeds but leaves your brain open to a who new level of abuse, now that fire is much much hotter. Shadowrun calls this Hot-siming, I think Hot-Dogging is more appropriate here. (Long live Gibson)

 

So now we have a good idea of what the DNI is able to access. Therefore we know what an enemy hacker can use with.

Now one last thing is this. The human brain takes about an hour to form long term memories, aka code memory into neuron, short term memories are not coded in neurons yet but are used in the interim. So, in order to hack a person would require long term memory access, thus requiring at least an hour. Since this topic is about attacks and battle on the net the discussion on brainwashing and person control are better left to other topics. The one possible exception would be if you blacked out the user, but his connection was still open. This would allow you to access the person for more that an hour. However, since the person is unconscious you could not do any mind control. Studies show that people can't learn while asleep, the same thing goes for unconscious. (Insert argument about coma patients being aware of their surroundings. Insert the sound of me not caring.)

 

So now we know what is vulnerable to attack.

• Sensory nerves. (visual, auditory, etc.)
• Self protective nerves. (hunger, bladder, etc.)
• Hot-doggers are open to pain and almost all nerves in the body

what is not included.

• Memory
• Thought

So with these options we now know where we can attack.

 

Our attacks will focus on several different areas.

 

First is the hardware.

A Doggers hardware can be attacked in multiple ways, overheat, power surge, BIOS corruption, file tree corruption, I/O blocking, I/O Noise, etc. Almost all of this fall under the jurisdiction of breaking hardware and should be treated as such.

 

Next is the Sensory Nerves.

We already have weapons that attack sensory nerves. Flash bangs are a key example, they overload the visual and auditory parts of the brain leading to confusion and disorientation. One can only assume that making ones entire reality a flash bang effect would lead to even worse consequences. Most likely blackout would follow as it is a brain defense mechanism. However the visual and auditory cortexes are not the only ones jacked into the net. The touch and other senses exist. If one were to gain control of these senses there would be no limit to the torture that could be inflicted on the person. Bugs under the skin, hair on fire, etc. Again, if the person is running with software defenses intact, these will be mostly mitigated by the persons box. However blackouts are again likely to ensue. If the person is Hot-dogging then they could have serious problem Cool check (sanity) defiantly required, resist drug/torture almost defiantly. However once they jack out the issues would only be temporary probably last a matter of minutes or hours, days at most. These attacks have the possibility of being Black (hurt the person, and probably illegal)

 

Next are the self protective nerves.

Here the hacker would have to do a serious number to get above the filters of the users box. But if they got there they could cause the user to feel extremely hunger, starving even. Dehydration is possible, or even the feeling of a full bladder. Side effects could include loss of bladder control or a feeling of extreme desire for either food, drink, or the restroom. These are not attacks that would be considered Black attacks but rather a deterrent, or practical jokes. Of all of the attacks these may be the easiest to accomplish simply because of the lack of defense (mostly because of its non-harmul, non-vital nature). In fact, most people consider this the human way to stop a hacker, and is considered a legal way to deal with an attacker.

 

Psychotic attacks.

These attack the persons psyche directly, while not so much an attack as the others these programs primarily manipulate the programs in charge of visual and auditory senses. This can lead to a person wanting to jack out just to get away from it all. It will also lead to short term (minutes/hours/days) psychosis. Hot-doggers may have much longer effect and more severe, due to the realness of the experience.

 

Hot-doggers need to be the most careful. The extra speed they get by bypassing safety programs may lead them to situations that need exactly those programs. With ones full sensory nervous system running about on the web there is real danger in feeling extreme pain. Pain with no limit. It is even possible that the body could manifest this mental pain as actual wounds on the body.

 

An extremely important thing to note is about attacks on short term memory. It is fully possible that a person who suffers a blackout could have short term memory loss. Therefor I can only assume that it has been discovered how to cause this intentional. It is possible that some Black programs are built solely to cause this memory loss.

 

Another very important thing is that a person who blacks out is still connected to the internet and is now leaving their box open for back hacking. Also a quick query and the user can be traced back to a physical location and soon a chopper full of men in black suits sporting very big guns will be a knocking at your door.

 

I'm not going to write a whole section on game rules. But, I think a basic guideline is in order.

 

Each program will need an intended target or targets. e.g. Visual/auditory overload, skin on fire, psychedelic colors/display.

 

Each program will need an effect. e.g. Blackouts, hunger, need to piss, psychotic delusions.

 

Each program will need a strength to determine either how well it does its job or how long it lasts. e.g. higher level programs lead to longer blackouts, or can surpass the code walls better (or both).

 

Certain programs will still be able to effect those on trodes and AR/VR goggles, but they will have reduced effects, and this should be resolved.

 

In most cases the brain will correct itself in a matter of minutes or hours. Sometimes a good nights rest will be needed. The brain is remarkably sturdy.

 

 

 

unluckily I dont have time to edit this now, sorry for any mistakes.

Ok I am loving this so hard!

 

I am a recovering Shadowrunner and I used the hacking rules in that system and it had major problems, and CP2020 and IU never had a system that I liked. This is a MAJOR improvement.

 

Love the idea of persistent actions and the penalties they have.

 

They only thing is that the initiative/turn system needs either rejiggering, or more clarification. But the basic initiative framework is very good, just need tweaking. (I don't like the -2 idea as it means a newbie runner could go crazy negative just hoping for a lucky hit, but a pro will find his piles of experience/skill quickly disappearing. It becomes a mud slinging contest.)

 

For Initiative and Actions per Round (APR) I like the idea but the part I'm unclear on is, does a person take all of his action and then the next person takes all of his? Or, is it some sort of I go you go until one of us can't.

The problem with either of these is the Hammer Effect. If it is one person takes all of his APR then the next person takes all of theirs the person who wins Initiative could easily hammer his opponent out of existence with his 1-10 actions while the other person waits. The hammer effect in the second case would be if runner A has 3 APR and runner B has 6 APR no doubt runner B is better and will most likely win so it would start runner A take one action then runner B then Runner A ect. However at the end of runner A's 3rd turn runner B still has turn 3,4,5, and 6. Meaning he can drop the Hammer while A "stands" there like a retarded monkey.

 

 

If either of these is the case then my proposed fix is as follows, if an am wrong in my assumptions then just ignore this part.

 

I propose a type of Ratio system. In the example above Runner A has 3 APR but Runner B has 6 APR. The simple and more balanced way would be to allow Runner B 2 actions per every 1 by Runner A.

 

For example Runner A takes his turn 1, then Runner B takes his turn 1 and turn 2.

Next Runner A take his Turn 2 and then Runner B takes his turn 3 and 4.

then Runner A take his Turn 3 and then Runner B takes his turn 5 and 6.

 

No sudden Hammer Effect, but Runner B is still at a serious Advantage doing twice as much as Runner A per turn.

 

To make this clear I would write the rules something like this.

 

Netrunning rounds are done in Sets. The number of Sets per round are equal to the lowest number of APR between the two, or more, runners.

After each runner makes his initiative check and his APR is calculated the number of Sets is equal to the lowest APR amongst all of the runners. If a runner has more APR than Sets then he divides his APR by the number of Sets and he takes that many Action per set. However a runner can never take more actions than his APR. Therefor a runner that has a non-whole number of Actions per Set will simply take the last Sets at a reduced number of actions (never less than the opponents number of actions per set).

 

So if Jack is facing ScreamDoc and Jack has 3 APR but ScreamDoc has 6 APR then the number of Sets is equal to the lowest of the two APR's. In this case Jack's 3. ScreamDoc will do 2 actions for every action that Jack takes.

 

However if Jack has 4 APR and ScreamDoc has 6 then there are 4 Sets. Jack's actions per set is 1, but ScreamDoc's is 1.5. This means that for the first 2 Sets ScreamDoc will take 2 actions, but on the last 2 sets he will only take 1 action per set. Jack will only every take one action per set.

 

 

The easy way to do this would be with a piece of paper and go something like

 

 

This clearly shows that for Sets 1 and 2 ScreamDoc gets to go twice and then on Sets 3 and 4 ScreamDoc only goes once. While Jack only goes 1 time for every set.

I would fill this out by going down each column and adding one number into each row, and then start again at the top when you run out of sets, that is why it says that ScreamDoc goes 1 and 5 for set 1 even thought this is not action 1 and 5 but rather his first and second action, this is just an easy visual way to do what I have described.

This is very simple, takes only a second, and is only needed if their is confusion on who goes when and how many times. Which should be basic math for most people.

 

I hope that I did not make this too confusing, was just trying to be overly thorough. All question and comments welcome. It is surprisingly easy despite looking like it takes a lot of rules to describe. Problem of being easier to show instead of describe.

 

 

(Wow, somehow this took over an hour to write...)

hello and welcome... but you do realize that for the crime of rolling the dice of 20 sides we'll have to burn you as a heretic. nothing personal, just a tradition around here, hope you understand

 

Hmm... then I should probably not mention that time in college where I experimented with d12...

So I guess this makes me the youngest player here (born after the release of 2013 but before 2020). I have been gaming for over eight years now. Mostly fantasy (D&D) but recently did a stint in Shadowrun (4e) after reading Necromancer. Got really fed up with the magic system (and muchkining) of that and was about to strip out the magic and balance the rules myself. Several friend suggested Cyberpunk and later pointed me towards IU. Must say I love it and have run several games of it.

 

Much IU board lurking lead me here and I hope it to be a prosperous relationship.

 

Currently have no game group do to moving but I plan to stay active in my cyberpunk.