CyberMurph

Yeah, I know. If the former Soviet Block countries faced up to the facts about the M1A2, The Leopard 2A6, the LeClerc, you'd have to scrap your whole tank inventory. I guess it's cheaper to just lie to yourselves.

George Bush makes money off of the war on terror? How ignorant are you? The Bush's are already rich. What the hell do they get out of the War on Terror exactly? Tell me how was the Bush family capital increased?

On behalf of the 3,000 Americans and other nationalities that died on Sept. 11, **** ***.

And you know what, if the USA comes out ahead, GOOD FOR US. We are tired of cleaning up YOUR BULL****. I spent 326 days in Bosnia policing a war those fat fuc** in the UN could not do jack shi** about. The Germans are oppsed to sending their troops anywhere, the French government can't agree on where to dig a latrine, and frankly the British army is too  small and their people are too scared. The only folks over there with balls before we showed up were the Swedes and again the UN kept them from accomplishing anything.

Sure, why not? I'm sure the Kurds, and other victims of his NERVE GASING won't mind.

I know it really creeps Europeans out that we can kind of romp around the world bombing folks at will. But then again if it were not for the British Empire we would not be a country now would we?

Althoug isn't it amazing that when the folks in the Balkans start killing each other the British, Franch and German press start asking "When is America going to do something about this?" And then when we do you all say, "OK, just be REALLY REALLY careful where your bombs fall. We don't want anyone to get hurt..."

Oh and don't worry we have no intention of doing it to you. We have already taken over the western world. As you eat your McDonalds, drink your Coke and watch "Friends ".

Oh yeah, and play Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0.

Ernst Roehm was gay. That was Hitlers excuse when it came time to get rid of the competition and "consolidate power" Hitler was "shocked" to discover Roehm at a gay party in Bavaria and used that as his excuse to execute him.

Although I think the shiney boots came from a cavalry tradition. Those boots come in handy if you are going to be campaigning on a horse. You know, so all the skin does not get rubbed off the insides of your legs!

From the top.

I know.  That means exactly jack, as the Army has not released an RHA equivalency.

URANIUM, are you so ignorant I have to explain that is the most dense metal on the planet?

Those T-72s were crappy export models.  Very crappy export models that were probably using regular AP rounds.

Where are these ERA kits?  A tandem warhead will penetrate, you can bet your ass on that. They are in warehouses, where do you think they are? They don't use them, because they don't need them. We have tandem warheads. We have fired them at M1s. They don't penetrate.

Those T-80s are probably display models at museums.  No working gun. No. they are ones we snatched off the battlefield in Chenya. It's an active service tank, there are no "museum models". It's not a WWII piece.

LOSATs are still travelling Mach 3 at five kilometers.  Not very slow.

Getting shot in the roof with an RPG is much different than getting hit in the glacis by a sabot shell. Not to a Tank.

The Russians in Chechnya use them.  They are still very much in service in fourth-string units.  In a guerilla war, A tank is better than NO tank.

The AT-11 will cut through an M1 like a hot knife through butter.  American tanks aren't invincible and I can give you the same invincibility argument on Russian tanks if you please.

T-62s for god sake they were not that great when they were new! What fantasy world do you live in?? Take a good look at the target tank in this video. Talk to me about "bouncing off" I watched a Swedish soldier in Bosnia shoot an AT-4 a T-55 hulk. Cut through it like a knife trough butter.

https://embastion.external.lmco.com/mfc/videolibrary/LOSAT.mpg

You realise that when Germany unified we bought some of their T-72s? German produce. As good as the Russina stuff. We use them at NTC in Fort Irwin. We also have a couple of HINDs that we use. We have people who do nothing but aquire weapons from around the world and shoot it at our stuff. We know what will happen, because we've done it.

But hey if you sleep at better at night  believeing your fantasies, well you go right on ahead.  

So what we should have waited for was Al-Qaeda to NUKE New York, then it would have been OK to go after them???

Last time I checked, the US is a 1st world country and there certainnly NO LACK of AK-47s over here!

This is how I explain CP2020 to some new guys who are gonna play in my summer campaign. My logic is being a doctor does not make you a saint...

**********************************************

New York 2080

Or

Cyberpunk for newbies pt2

So where am I, who am I and why are people shooting at me?

New York 2080

The game takes place in NYC. This is the NYC of RTalsorian timeline where the events of September 11th never happened. Instead a whole bunch of fictional bad stuff happened instead.

Basic CP Terminology;

Corporate Sector: These are corporate parks and residential areas. They are owned, operated and patrolled by corps. These are relatively safe areas to live. In some extreme cases they are so well protected the residents have no Idea how bad the outside world really is.

GP: General Population: Generically this refers to anything not Corp owned or a federal reservation. In day to day use it means relatively safe areas, patrolled by local municipalities, hired security personnel, or “self patrolled” by the residents. This represents the majority of residential America.

Free Fire Area or Combat Zone: These are areas that were designated free fire areas by the military while martial law was imposed on the United States. Since then the areas were never rebuilt, or reclaimed by any government of any sort. These areas are essentially “no man’s land” and commonly referred to as combat zones or FFAs. The police do not patrol here at all. If the police, corporate cops, or the military need to enter to combat zone they do so in the form of a forced entry operation. The same way they would invade a foreign country or serve an arrest warrant to an extremely dangerous felon. And they usually don’t stay long.

Buffer Zone: This is the bizarre area where the combat zone spills over into GP and vice versa. It is dangerous, and the police patrol in full battle rattle and urban assault vehicles. It is also the scene for Chic’ nightclubs and bars. It is where the poor go because it is safer than the combat zone and the rich go because it is more dangerous than GP. This is where rich kids go to score drugs, middle aged men go to find prostitutes, and the poor go to find soup kitchens and a warm, dry, not quite safe place to sleep at night. Fixers venture out here to sell their wares, and maybe score some new. Gangs battle over turf, but not in the same sort of open turf wars as in the combat zone.

Poser Gangs: Gangs surgically altered to pose a particular style. For instance a gang of Republican Presidents, where all the gang members have been altered to look like a dead president. Some are altered to look like a kind of animal or robot.

Ripper Docs: Doctors who brave the Buffer Zone or Combat Zone to perform surgery on the black market. These folks are so extremely greedy, have lost their license, or are so addicted to something (drugs, sex, whatever) that they need to practice “medicine” here. The rewards can be very great or very deadly. Some are part of NGO humanitarian groups helping the poor, and are unlikely to take a bullet out of a solo’s backside, which got there while trying to shoot it out with a gang.

Ok, that’s a little bit about where you are; now you want to know who you are right? You mean you don’t know! Well let’s find out.

Characters

These are the basic character classes. Like D&D they define who you are and what you do.

Solo: This is the “fighter” class. You shoot things; you punch kick and blow things up. You also put yourself between the bad guys and your weaker assets (other team members). You plan the tactics. You give direction when the other group members are scared and confused under fire (and they will be!)

Netrunners: Hackers, computer gurus and masters of all things electronic. You are a master of the Internet. You do in the net what a solo, fixer, and techie does in the real world. You fight virtual wars, make virtual deals and gather information. I recommend you learn some skills outside of just the Net though. You can also be an onsite hacker. You can fix computers, break into electronic systems, plug into someone’s car, hack into and steal it the way a techie would hotwire it. Don’t expect to sit all warm in cozy in a hotel room while the rest of the team kicks in doors whose security system you hacked. You’ll be on site with them. Learn to shoot a gun, you’ll need it.

Rockers: You’re a rock star. Or you’re gonna be. Just you wait and see. You are different than those other stoned out wanna be musicians. You do stuff for real. You get out there and stick it to the man! You don’t just talk the talk, you walk the walk boy-o.

Techie: You’re a mechanical freaking genius. You can build it, you can fix it, you can break it, and you can break into it. In a world that is automated from top to bottom they can’t get along without you. Oh, they think they know about stuff. But they don’t. They’ll come crawling to you every time. “Fix my ‘bike, fix my gun, get us out of this trash-compactor”. You better believe it. Every time.

Med-Techs: More under appreciated, but obviously much more important than them so called techies, is the combat medic. You fix people man. They come to you when they’re hurt and dying man. Think they can’t live without the grease monkeys? They can’t live without you for real!

Media: You’re damn com-bat journalist. A field man. Heraldo frickin’ Rivera. You go where the action is. You’re not one of them talking heads on the vid that has never been anywhere they report on. They’ve probably never left their damn arcology, much less the country. Maybe you work for one of the big 5 networks. Maybe you write for an underground political rag. Maybe you are a freelancer who gets published when and where he can. As long as you get a byline right?

Cop: Lawman. Fed. MP. Rental-cop. Whatever. You have, or had, legal authority to shoot, hit, kick, slap and cuff people. Even arrest them from time to time. Maybe you work for federal agency, maybe you’re a local rental cop. Maybe you’re under cover (if so discuss it with me first!) or maybe you got fired and they took your gun and badge.

Corporate: You’re The Man. Literally. You work for the big guys. You have money, or access to it. You have contacts, or have contacts who have contacts. You know how to make money. You could sell ice to Eskimos. You’re on your way to the top and god help anyone who stands in your way!

Nomads: Not in my game buddy. Nomad is a group theme or character background. Not a character class. Wanna be nomads? Buy a bike and roll badly on your life path.

So tell me, who are you?

DOESN'T ANYBODY REMEMBER ROCKY! (The first one)

A farce? You're gonna have to qualify that statement. What did you expect? Regimetns on line, volley fire by companies?

Sure, if you are fighting a european country in the 19th century. How does Clauswitz apply to "the war on terror"?

You are correct. You do not have to catastrophically kill a tank to make it combat ineffective. You can damage the weapon systems, the engine, antennas, sights, suspension etc. Many of the tanks limitations deal with the ability of the crew to detect targets, limited elevation of the main gun, and in the US's situation, a lack of approprtiae ammunition.

OK, the M1 does not have ROLLED HOMOGENUS STEEL armor. It has depleted URANIUM and chobham armor.

Don't tell me that anyone knows a T-62 will penetrate it because 1) Chobham armor is still calssified, 2) the export version of the M1 does not have either the DU armor nor the chobham. When did "they" test this little theory out? On those 4.5 million dollar tanks the amry mis-placed? Yeah, right.

M1A1s received direct hits from T-72s at ranges as close as 500m (Battle of 73 Easting) and the rounds failed to penetrate.

There are ERA packages for the M1A1, they just have never been used because they don't need them. A tandem warhead will not penetrate M1s armor.

The LOSAT delives 120 times the kilajules of an M1 SABOT round. I talked to the test company comander, A/511 PIR at Ft Bragg in January 01. He watched one enter the front of an M1 and exit the back.

I don't know where on earth you get this information about the T-62. You know the US Army is in possession of a couple of T-80s? You think maybe they might have test fired them at M1s?

Anything will bounce off anything once it slow down to a stop!

Did you note the T-80s performance in Chechnya?

Who the hell uses T-62s anymore anyway? They're 40 years old!

The AT-11 is a bad ass piece of gear. Unless you are shooting at an M1.

Maybe you missed out on the gulf war?

Maybe there was a reason the Former Warring Factions in Bosnia opted not to mess with IFOR?

"I AM THE LARRW"

Judge Joe "Sly Stalone" Dredd

Dragooncav you are smokin crack if you think a 115mm round can penetrate the M1A1 from any range at any angle. The only thing ground fired out there today that can penetrate the M1A1 DP Uranium and Chobham armor is the LOSAT. And it's not even fielded.

The only good part of Operation Flashpoint is the "paintball" part!

Me, Claudia Schiffer, and the porno movie soundtrack!

baum-chicka-buam-bau!

Clauswitz was overrated, just ask John Keegan. Who may in turn be overrated...

I think BOD is just a way to help keep your solos from biting the big one when they get hit. I mean, let's be reasonable. If you want talk realism, getting shot by a .22 really sucks! I know a guy who got shot in the forearm by 12 ga birdshot at point blank range. THREE years later he still had an ace bandage wrapped around his arm from all the reconstruction. My my point is this, one 9mmP hollow point round will fu** up a human of any body size six ways 'till tuesday. It may not kill them but they'll be out for the duration. If you played CP2020 realistically most characters would not survive the first firefight.

I am also willing to believe that those same 38.7 million people fall into the "lazy and atupid" category. Thats alos less than 15% of the population. This is, by the way, a VERY big country compared to say, Sweden, where the sociallism thing seems to work well. Of course there are as many people in Missouri as there are in Sweden.

I've got a Suit hiring the group (poser gangers) to get his heroin addicted daughter out of the combat zone. He's hiring them to keep his daughter's problem off the corporate radar screen. Of course things will go mightily wrong...