Gratwin

Had a bit of a creative block so took me longer to muddle up some story..

I'll start this over the weekend

If your target is trained, they will realize they've came under attack from a sniper.

If the sniper is any good, the target won't ever realize anything again

Great ideas though SOMVA

A fold up pistol the size and shape of a Galaxy S5 with a protective case..

I actually really like the concept...

https://www.idealconceal.com/

Atta - I actually agree their bullpup configured pump action looks really good..

O'Borg - It has a built in laser site. There is a picture somewhere.. S

There is a lot to digest here and I'll cover points more fully later.

When a character is BOD challenged they role BOD+Strength feat vs BOD min x2

Entirely feasible with training to learn to fire that handgun without taking damage.

Doesn't do anything for the WA penalties but relative to BOD the character is holding a cannon!

What does it bring to the table?

It's a freaking mini gun I can hold in one hand

its just a halo model for a new company. Because they can, is the only reason. Not sure if it has practical merits on the battlefield until DARPA finish the future warrior program and I can carry one of these on each arm supported by the exoskeleton.

While browsing the web.. I came across this.

Forget the M134 Minigun.. This truly is man portable

May I present the XM556 Microgun From Empty Shell Defense

I think where my rule set starts to diverge from the main rules is certainly heavy weapons. They just don't do enough damage in the standard edition..

50 BMG and above really are anti material rifles.. use them against meat targets and that target is pretty much going to be an ex target whatever personal body armor they wear.

Again probably for another topic

This is the Anzio 20mm

Anzio

and next to a barrat 50 cal

I'm thinking about having no differentiation between d6 and d10 weapons - especially as the dice roll has no place in my rules. The result for the Anzio comes in about right perhaps with a tweak to allow for the standard bipod. Something like a -2 Recoil for want of an off-the-cuff figure

My intention is that players will just see a value next to the weapon and can mod the gun to change these stats further should they require - Including stances in this feels like a step too far If you are going to do that the simple -1 recoil is my favoured approach.

Extrapolating to my rules - the only thing I change for a normal d6 weapon is instead of dividing by 6. I divide my 4.5 - used 9mm as a guide to get as close a value to 2.16.

So my recoil comes out at

Glock 9mm - 4 BOD

.44 Mag - 5.3 - I'd like to round up but its a 5 BOD really

.50 AE - 7.5 BOD - shall I round to 8?

45_70 - 10 BOD

FN Fal.. Broadly similar

SA - 3 BOD

3rnd Burst - 5 BOD

FA - 7 BOD

Anzio 20mm - BOD 10.

Being the best part of 2meters long this is assuming fired from a prone position.

In Cyberpunk 2020 official rules 00 12g does 4d6 damage in a cone and some really dodgy AP slug rules. 4d6+2 dmg.

So taking buckshot and dropping into BH rules..

Should fired - 3 BOD

FA araska 12 - 6 BOD

Doubled when firing from the hip! Again - Again probably close enough for me from my experience of having never firing a proper gun! - I'll add these to the weapon descriptions and do the rest.

Atta - You are right. In the rules the recoil could be taken into account by the WA. I was only thinking about WA being affected by the shorter barrel and less rifling. I might just add 1 point anyway so that weedy players turn to expensive gun mods to fire bigger guns. Guns that I can take away!

I split my handguns into categories so easy to pull out the compacts. Gets more exciting when comparing PDWs and SMGs... and the inclusion of recoil starts to give some greater differentiation between different calibers on similaly sized frames - The gun fetish side of me appreciates this

wrote out a lovely post then my computer crashed So here is the condensed version

Might be a slight maths fail on my part but for the FAL I get the following minimum BOD: (Note: I am that GM who rounds up)

4 on SA

6 on 3rnd Burst (Not sure if they have one but here for completeness. I think they do)

8 on Full Auto

Which looks very reasonable. Based on avg BOD 5-6 most people are okay firing anything but FA when they begin to spray bullets everywhere..

Perhaps these rules are not as broken as I remembered

But

I've made things difficult for myself and got rid of all the damage dice rolling and I completely changed shotgun rules. So before I try to work back some questions for all those gun toting chaps here.

Are compacts / hold outs as easy to fire as say a full size handgun..

Think Glock 17 vs.. Glock 26

What caliber handguns are uncomfortable / scary to fire

Shotguns - Is there a difference in recoil Slugs vs 00 gauge..

My intention is to get a value in the gun stats for recoil rather than have players work it out on the fly. So I won't have to show working to them.. pfft heaven forbid.

For those who are curious.. here are the values I'll be working from..

9mm - 9 dmg

.44 Magnum - 15 dmg

.50 AE - 17 dmg

45-70 - 22 dmg

7.62 Nato Long - 26 dmg

20mm x 102mm - 90 dmg

12g Slug - 21 dmg

12g 00 - 9 dmg x 9 pellets (I use burst fire rules and assume 00 is approx the size of a 9mm bullet)

I'm happy with the character info I have so leave it with me - I'll brainstorm a few ideas and get this going. Assume roughly a week - save you checking everyday.

First, ACPA (the name for power armors in Cyberpunk 2020) did, actually, worked by affecting your REF and Awareness (and MA, IIRC). The boost / penalty depended on the control interface quality.

 

STR was, however, based exclusively on the skeleton's strength - and for good reason.

 

Both ACPA and 'borgs needed recharging, though for extended combat they tended to rely on quick-change batteries.

For 'borgs, I did covered it in pretty a detail in CheapFBC sourcebook, I guess.

 

As for recoil - it is one of the many "optional rules" in CP2020.You can find it in Solo of Fortune 2 and in Blackhand's street Weapons (in a somewhat refined form). You can either apply it strictly, for every caliber (making life tough for characters with less brawn) - having a typical Wondernine (9mm Para or equivalent, 2d6+1 damage under basic rules) require BOD of 4+ to fire without penalties.

Or you could've wave it away, and not concern your players with anything smaller than the guns with BOS 9+ minimum (like, .454 Casull handguns, pistol-sized shotguns and so on).

There were rules for using guns "too big for you" (-2 WA & 2 damage from recoil per every point of BOD you're short of).

 

Keep in mind though that there were quite a few unofficial tweaks to the damage values, so it could've been affecting minimum BOD too.

 

There were 3 key ingredients into determining a gun's minimum BOD under SoF2/BH rules:

1. Damage output per round.

2. Rate of fire.

3. One-handed, two-handed, or shoulder-fired (also braced / used with bipod / used with gyro-harness etc).

 

Now, if you want to have it "scaled closer to reality", I have to ask - what reality exactly? And how close?

This might require you to start a separate topic on that, but I'm all game, you know

I've just written the battery tech level of my rules so will to work back from that to determine linear frame / ACPAs and Borg tech and power. Determined to run Borgs on hydrogen fuel cells so that they 'breath' which would be awesome for the ones that mimic humans..

Re: Recoil. The reality I speak of... it is the VR one running in my head, of course. Not 100% sure I want it as I converted all my pistol damage to fixed damage for speed of play and am trying to keep the game rules as light as possible.. but adding pistols firing 40_70 ammo makes me think perhaps it would be funny. I'll grab my dusty copy of BH if I can find it and see if it can be reworked easily to fit a streamlined ethos. Deserves it's own thread for sure..

On topic.. I think I need to source myself a copy of maximum metal and read the CheapFBC guide.. I'll do some RL work first!

I love the concept of future warrior type exoskeletons for military and police forces.. definitely the way the future is headed (extrapolating from now)

Just had a recollection of the accelerator suits from the GI Joe film.. Agghhh my brain!

I'd quite like these to be viable but when running at full speed have some big power needs - same for full borgs - Extended combat requires a fast charge somewhere That'd mess up the players day..

For Exoskeleton based mods I think I'd have them boost the characters abilities rather than have their own Str / REF or whatever. Those suits that do have their own stats are the hard suits, think deep sea diving / landmates etc... Full borgs I'm yet to fully visualise. I prefer them to be a little less powerful than cannon - it's an area I haven't started rewriting.

While reading back through peoples posts - Gomiville mentioned recoil rules. I like the idea of this but from memory the official rules meant that recoil didn't become a problem until people were firing the made up calibers. Having got rid of all the stupid new rounds and created weapons that were closer to reality.. has anyone scaled these to be more realistic? I'm about to tackle this next for my rules overhaul and I'd like a steer.

Do any other RPG rules use recoil? Perhaps I'll look through Gurps.. they do have rules for everything

email technical issue spotted.. I have all your characters now.

Great. Thanks both.

I will look through the sheets over the weekend and will come back to you with any questions by Monday.

Edit: Tiger.. not seen anything come through from you. Have messaged you an alternative email address.

I've not heard anything.. happy to take this forward.

If you guys could email over some character sheets or alternatively stick them online here. Not sure how detailed you all got but I like to weave in backstory into my games. The more character detail the better really - what are their drives, ambitions, how they see the world, vulnerabilities (bwahaha). The richer the character the more I have to work with. Not everything you say will be used to fuck you over.. there is hope, success, redemption and most of all humour in the dark future too

I'll find a corner once I have these and put something together storywise - we'd barely started so at a bit of a loss as to where this was headed - Wraith, I'll try to do this some justice and leave it open for you too step back in.

New to the Forum based gaming thing so bare with me while I pitch in feet first as a GM. With so few players I'll keep this fairly freeform and not completely scripted..

I've not heard anything.. happy to take this forward.

If you guys could email over some character sheets or alternatively stick them online here.

I'll find a dark corner and put something together storywise - we'd barely started so at a bit of a loss as to where this was headed - Wraith I'll try to do this some justice and leave it open for you too step back in.

New to the Forum based gaming thing so bare with me while I pitch in feet first as a GM.

I quite like the idea of Burger wars.. Burger King vs Maccy D's.. Black ops teams fighting in South America over cattle rights

Or Pepsi and Coke trying to steal their rivals secret recipies..

Arms manufacturers stoking civil unrest to secure arms deals.. Hell, government stocking civil unrest to support their arms manufacturers. I'm looking at you America

Pharmaceuticals conducting human trials on the urban poor then desperately covering their tracks when they get found out.

So many ways the player can get involved in interesting ways.

I too avoid overt military clashes. Corps being more powerful than governments and clashing in the cities takes it a step too far for me.. If more action is needed then private security forces have plenty of scope to get heavy handed while 'policing' areas - think Blackwater.. especially if delegated to robot security forces a la Total Recall which could interpret things in a ery black and white manner. Generally don't mess with the cops or generate too much attention from government agencies as they all in my games have serious clout.

If local government money is tight - Corp sponsorship deals are the way forward. Imaging police with large logos on their vests and the potential clash of interests that could happen!

I've emailed. Lets see if he comes back.

Eclipse Phase is very well written. Roleplaying during the destruction of earth with the goal of reaching safety in orbit is pretty cool.. Not so similar to Walter Jon Williams Hardwired.. Read the book then check out the cyberpunk suppliment

I too changed my setting - but with a different direction. As part of the new rules and tech level I'm writing I decided to change it rather than follow the cyberpunk arc. The bit I love, as SOMVA mentioned, is the shades of grey (50? ) and that's why I hold Cyberpunk in higher standing than the other associated interlock / fusion games

In mine there are people embracing the metal, others warping nature with bio and nanotech, those that reject any modifications and mix that all with the next stage of human evolution in the form of emerging psychic ability

Those are the new social divides bubbling in the background - with appropriate levels of fear, intolerance, suspicion, attempted regulation etc.

I like to source as my inspiration

For tech and feel.. Deus Ex, Ghost in the Shell, Appleseed (I like landmates but I don't think I'll make them fly), Ghost Recon, Minority Report, Total Recall

evolution of humans: Short film - Code 8,

amongst others.

I think in terms how you'd like to take things forward - there'd need to be a reason for humans to push forward to producing these giant mecha suits.. actually quite liked Pacific Rim.. Tech wise it's not so far removed as to need a massive jump in time.

For BGC - thats PA Suits vs Bioroid Boomers. Could make for a fun police campaign actually.. I'd watch I-Robot, Bladerunner, the new Total Recall film for the police robots - so many ways to make it work.

No BOOM! today?

 

It's another 3 weeks since Wraith has showed up on the forum...

Hopefully he is alright. I keep checking back

What might killerbots of the future look like

 

This sort of thing is likely to be inevitable.

 

It isn't that hard to imagine what a less lethal swarm may be like. Weaponized killer bees

The 4th edition Eclipse Phase rule book describes this sort of swarm weapon.. Quite an interesting game setting

I'm content with my liver, or arms for that matter, but I'd love some nanooptical upgrade, or failing that, a pair of cybereyes...

I'm similar. I love bioware and nano much much more than chrome which is why I've massively expanded that section in my rules.

So for me.. Just a little tweak to the eyes to see into the infrared and UV spectrum.. actually just add .. speedware, audiatory upgrade, olfactory boost, M&B lace (cos who wants to keep hitting the gym to get that body?), skinweave...