VermillionStar

An interesting take!     It does look like fun, although I have to say that while I was reading your post it painted a picture of something a little less modern.  It seemed more like siege warfare (I suppose it could be seen like that in any game system) to me.

You have many specific forms of attack and will subsequently have adaptation and specific forms of defence for each type of attack; it's only natural.  For instance if you have a number of decks combining with an uber-workstation then the target system may have "Defence Drones" or something like that which are there to hold back the decks and save the real system defences for the big boy they know is coming.

This could make for some intense situations and really push the need for the PC to be sneaky (which I like the most) and basically keep the system busy with all these sorts of diversions while they creep in somewhere.

Yea, nea?

Okay, I'd buy that for a dollar.  That's a fair one I'll agree with.  It's like he's a disgruntled postal worker or something.

Well he wasn't found with a copy of Catcher In The Rye so I don't buy this one.  

I saw the diagram of the whole "sniper bed" that they had setup in the car so buddy could fire from the trunk and never actually leave the car.  Sort of elaborate but simple at the same time.  They had been thinking about this for a while now I think...

Hate groups aside (hehe, can you hate a hate monger and make any progress?) I think there will be a reaction from the public on this one.  I believe that the majority of people are making sure not jump the gun and lash out at that particular ethnic group but they are also getting tired of being the victims of Muslim males, aged 15 - 45.  Hopefully the FBI, et al, will be able to prove that there is no connection between this man and other groups abroad - my main reason for that is two-fold.  One, if this man was a terrorist then that means there will be more of them coming to a neighbourhood near you, and two, I think that it will be good (in a relative way) to have something happen that isn't tied into a global conspiracy against the west and is just good, old fashioned, domestic, criminal behaviour.

Reminds me of what the drill sergeant from Full Metal Jacket said when speaking about Lee Harvey Oswald and the other fella in the bell tower who's name escapes me right now.

He said "These are examples of the carnage one, motivated marine and his rifle can cause" ...or something.

I'm not sure that I understand the idea of having fast but not powerful(?) Runners on point and having the powerful but slow reserve force.

Even though the massive Unix workstation you talk about may take some time to get online, load programs, whatever; you'd have to assume that the target system was ready to go from the start.  Wouldn't this mean that the little guys up front would get squashed, or are they there to provide diversion only?  While they would have some programs themselves, if you're going to the trouble of having to have the real ICeBreaker on a separate, dedicated system wouldn't that make the target system out of their league in the first place.

I think psychophipps' thoughts here are pretty much the same as mine.  I mean, the cops will always show up eventually and they are a good plot device to help end a scene of the latest OK Corral.

I would only nail this down to a certain response time if the PCs required the information, i.e. - they are going to do a hit and run on an armoured car they know will be moving through a certain area so they find out what the standard response time to this type of crime is and act accordingly.  This was illustrated very well in the openning scenes of the movie Heat.

That's not bad at all Massdark; I think I may give that one a try.

Well, they were able to find him, and it seems through a more common means nowadays - a tip from a "concerned citizen".

There you have it.

A special forces, Gulf War veteran and his son have been arrested.

I think the reason that this gets so much attention now is because this person is like a new flavour of serial killer - if indeed that's the title they get.

Historically, serial killers that I've been aware of are very specific and meticulous about their "work".  They stick to a very restricted demographic of victim and tend to follow the same procedures for acquiring the victim, doing whatever it is they do to them, and eventually dumping them.

This sniper person is looking to be infamous, first and foremost, and doesn't seem to have the patience or "work-ethic" that other serial killers posess.

Thoughts?

Classic...

The plastic bag bit reminds me of a Cop campaign I was running where one of the PC detectives had a very high empathy and was still about taking people alive as much as possible - though it's amazing what some players in the CP2020 world would deem as "Non-Lethal" means.

- aluminum bat to the face with 8 BODY, 6 Melee and complete surprise comes to mind right away

- the ever-popular removing a limb with mono-weapon AFTER calling paramedics

- Armoured police cruisers pinning suspects to garbage bins after the statement "well, I'll only go 30 km/h or so..."

- and lastly, the modified microwaver that fried the better part of all the neural synapses in your brain and left cybernetics intact because "we need the subdermal recorder for evidence"

Did you know that in Utah you can own a "personal nuclear device"?  However, it should be pointed out that it is illegal to detonate said device...

The system of control doesn't work; like so many other things of this nature, the laws surrounding them are taken out of context and no longer applicable - at least to a point.  Once upon a time in North America people were given the right to bear arms.  Made sense at a time when you actually had to hunt to get food and had to defend your isolated homestead from bandits, or something.

Modern or enlightened society shouldn't require that everyone carries a gun - but this is only in a perfect world.  In the current state of affairs there will also be a need for people to protect themselves from the ever increasing threat of crime.  Where can we draw the lines?  Not in this forum, especially considering the pasttime we all have so much fun with - Cyberpunk.

Without radical changes, it will never be different and the debate will last forever.  Anyways, I thought this was about that sniper person - does nobody know anything about his lastest victim or the phone number?

I think it would be good for all, in particular GMs looking for ideas, if forum denizens gave a brief rundown of their most memorable run: the highlights, the funniest event, the great movie-esk actions of heroism, etc.  Just an outline, from beginning to end, of a single adventure that sticks out in your mind.  It could be the start of it all, or the culmination of a campaign; either way if it's great I'd like to hear about it and share my own.

What did the man say?  An armed society is a polite society... or something.  I dunno, I just think that's one of those funny but true sayings.

No matter what the topic of these kinda discussions there is always that "what if" scenario of the crazy person who uses something for the forces of evil whether it be a gun or a full sized sedan.  I think that invariably the discussion will degenerate to crap from there because it becomes not the sharing of opinions but rather the butting of learned prejudices.  Oh well... sorta.  That's all I gotta say about that.

Hey, didn't the sniper guy strike again yesterday or the day before?  And what's the deal with the phone number?

Attacking a sky-scraper isn't really a good idea for a small unit.  I would suggest to never do that; there's just too much there.  You need a large force to destroy something that big without buying the farm, or a piece of it, from retaliation.

So I think we can assume you're looking for just a covert infiltration to accomplish whatever task it is you need to do.  That being said, the first thing to ask what/where is your target.  Why?  To get into and out of the sky-scraper unnoticed you have to make sure that whoever you send in to do the job is either "supposed to be there" or isn't detected.  A majority of the time I think this comes down to whether or not you can walk in and out with falsified (sp?) identification or do you have to grab something that makes you look conspicuous when you're leaving.

Answering that will tell you whether or not you go in during normal business hours, or after hours.

There are tons of consideration for both scenarios but suffice to say that at both times, a sky-scraper is a fortress of sorts.  It's not a castle in the old sense of the word, I don't think that sort of thing really even applies in the modern world anyway, but if you take into consideration several things, you'll see what I mean by fortress.

The Biggest Problem

- sky-scrapers are enourmous.  In a CP2020 world it is reasonable for them to have a couple hundred floors; combined that with a base the size of one (or more) downtown city blocks and the dimensions can be staggering.

...erm, okay so I was smoking crack at the time of writing this and my figures were off by a huge margin.  Still, the buildings are enormous and a small team can't possibly survive any sort of prolonged contact with the enemy.

The In's and Out's

- security of all types is everywhere.  A building described above will not only have a regiment of security guards just to handle the rounds, but will have multiple types and layers of electronic security with redundant systems and several "main consoles" to operate it from.  If a team was discovered in a certain section of the sky-scraper you can expect that the area would be effectively sealed off and you'd have to do something pretty drastic to get out, and even then your pursuit would be immediate and forceful.

What does this leave you?  My opinion is that some stealth, stealth, and stealth, followed up with ingenious sneakyness and a healthy dose of good fortune, all topped with a man on the inside is the only way for a small unit to achieve a goal (of anything that has real value) in a sky-scraper.  You simply cannot be detected, if you are, you're done, period.

This is a pretty general question for something I think is a very situation specific topic.  In general terms, here's what I think:

If you're taking a small group of people and attempting to take an installation you have to have a thorough CTR on the target and then make a plan based on what you find; anything else would be suicide against any sort of competent opponent.  Where small unit tactics are concerned I think intelligence is the key to victory when on the offence, because if you don't know what you're up against or what to expect then your assault turns into a gang-#### in short order.

If you're defending an installation with a small group of people then certainly a myriad of surveillance devices need to be in place; sensors of all kinds with redudant systems.  In reality, you'd have to assume that someone would make it past your electronic defences to some degree in which case a good rapid-response plan is your best friend, couple that with the ability to isolate certain areas of the installation to trap attackers.  While it usually goes without saying in just about every type of siege, the attackers outnumber the defenders, so you need lot's of firepower and you need some badass muchachos who a) can handle it competently (the owner of their installation doesn't want it destroyed in defence) and who don't start flapping good style when the cameras show 10-1 odds against.

Without a more specific scenario I don't know what else I can give you.  I'm also very interested in other ppls point of view.

I think this was really misunderstood when I said it before.  What I was trying to get at is that a group of guards will know the layout of their building like the back of their hands and could possibly setup a killer ambush for the PCs who don't really know their way around.

Or, the guards could know that there is a silent alarm that gets triggered when weapons are discharged and may give up quickly to lull the PCs into a false sense of security.

I never for a moment wanted to imply that an NPC would "know" that a PC only had 2 bullets left in their magazine or that they didn't have a gas mask, etc.  That is ridiculous, and as Strawberry-Cream has pointed out several times - unfair.

See tagline...

In Canada it's quite difficult to get approved for an FAC (gun license) anymore.  Mandatory registration of everything, even long arms for hunting.  As well, I could spend 3 pages of text explaining the restrictions on owning and transporting a handgun.  Storage of guns and ammunition is also quite detailed.

I'm happy for all of it.

I read depending on my mood.

My textbooks are for when I'm learning - hookd on foniks werkd for me!

I read fantasy because I believe in an ideal; sense of honour, good and bad with a tiny bit of grey, and because I want to believe that we'll all eventually "get the big picture" and make it over our own shortcomings.

I read cyberpunk (and some sci-fi) when my hedonistic evil twin takes over my body... or something.    No, actually I read it when I'm feeling rebelious or that I want something more outa life and I'm willing to grab the world by the nuts to get it.

Then I read "literature" like Catcher In The Rye when I'm depressed and hate the world... don't worry, I don't carry it around with me yet.  

Well then, isn't that something...  

While I don't really have a comment on the world becoming a large, police state I do have something to say about guns and availability.  Either everyone should have one and have some sort of mandatory training with it like a few countries in Europe or nobody should have one (except law enforcement).

Why?  Even though these things go from one extreme to the other they make sense.  I don't have any statistics that I've researched but as I understand it in countries where there is mandatory military service of some sort and everyone has a long arm of some type in their closet, overall crime is lower when compared to a country that is "willy nilly" about gun control.

Conversely (or rather not), in countries where you can't have a gun without a DAMN good reason there is overall less crime when compared to a country that is "willy nilly" about gun control.

When everyone has a gun, people tend to be more polite.  Sure life is a little more tense but it's amazing what people can learn to live with, right?  Now, in my country, where nobody has a gun unless I'm COMPLETELY out of my league the worst thing I usually have to worry about is getting filled in once in a while.  Life's not all that tense and you can count the homicides in a year usually on one hand.

...does this really address anything or am I completely off topic?

That's just the thing though, isn't it...    Most "eye for an eye" punishments do not address the emotional side to crimes that victims and their families feel and while they may solve a problem quickly it most likely doesn't get solved correctly.  

Besides, increasing the punishment to suit both the crime and to satisfy the victims and their families emotional cavity can quickly get out of hand.  If you're not sure what I mean, then look here for a reminder of where we came from.

Modern legal systems may not always "work" but they are the main thing that keeps our society intact.

I'm not sure what it is about comments like this one that make me laugh, but they do.

There's something good to be said for "an eye for an eye" type of punishment don't you think?

Hmm, didn't see this till now.  darkmonki beat me to the punch but I still gotta share the love.

Transmetropolitan ...nuff said.

You're all of course assuming this to be the acts of one person.  If you know something the rest of us don't then please share.

All things being equal in knowledge of what's on the news, I'd say that the probability of this being an organized act with several or more individuals is at least on par with it being a "serial killer".

Cyberpunk PCs, IMHO, are too complex and too dynamic for roles to be of use.  Fantasy PCs (ala D&D) come from an era where you did one thing your whole life and that was it because you needed to trade that skill to get everything else.  Now, people change careers on average of 3 - 4 times in there working life; that's not job changes it's a full change in what you do for a living.  The point - people (and subsequently PCs) don't just do one thing anymore.  They do whatever makes the most sense to them combined with whatever is available at the time.

Now SA's are a separate matter.  Some are good, like Combat Sense or StreelDeal, others like Authority I just completely throw away because it's role specific, stupid, etc.  But I think that SA's should be more valuable, and for my games that is primarily done by limiting their availability.  SA's are only given when earned.  They are like that added extra given at experience time, when applicable.  I don't give out SA's at the end of every session but over the course of a campaign a PC can pick up a point or two for sure.  SA's should be what sets a PC above an NPC.  Sure, Akira the Supergoon will have some Combat Sense but very few other NPCs would and that aspect is why PCs can act the movie part.