Allen1

 

 

After thinking about it, and trying to re-read v3 over and over again, I have come to a different conclusion than the Title I originally gave the thread.....

 

The New Coke, Classic coke analogy was wrong.....

 

Instead, a better analogy can be found in Godzilla.

 

CP 2020 is Japanese Godzilla, pure Kaiju fun, yeah it may seem a bit dated, but it works and we love it. V3 is the American remake of Godzilla. In that its a noble effort, but its just not the same. The American remake was a fun monster movie, and the effects and action were nice, but it wasn't Godzilla. If they had called it something else, anything else, the movie would have been just fine, even enjoyable. Bit putting the name Godzilla on it just feels like blasphemy. The same can be said for V3, if they had called it anything else but cyberpunk it probably would have been much better recieved, but they wanted the name recognition. The problem is, that it is so far removed from anything remotely resembling Cyberpunk 2020, that it pretty much killed all interest from their base audience before the product even got finished. A much much wiser move on R.tals part would have been to keep the 2020 line supported, and bring V3 out under a different name (much like they did with Cybergeneration). They could have called it Fuzionpunk, or whatever.

 

And its not like the fan base didn't try and warn them, didn't try and suggest that what they were doing was a bad idea, but the fans were completely ignored, which is of course R.Tals prerogative, but in the end, it just feels like a slap in the face to everyone who supported them for all these years.

 

And, as an off topic side note, am I the only one who also feels let down that they dropped support for Bubblegum Crisis? I didn't run the system or setting, but like so many things, the books were fantastic as resources and information pools.

I just love that Godzilla analogy, and it is quite on point. I love the old Godzilla movies, but the new one is one of my guilty pleasures, but probably not for the reason the makers would have liked. Jean Reno is way too serious and Hank Azaria is just over the top. Still, the movies are apples and oranges as far as I am concerned.

Well, we have pretty much ignored Cyberpunk 3.0 and just continued on. Our present incarnation of Cyberpunk 2.0 is now in 2023 Las Vegas. No, the Fourth Corporate War hasn’t happened yet with us, and we are not in much of a hurry to get there. We can only hope that the lack of any enthusiastic response to CP 3.0 will give Rtal. some reasons to rethink their decision to no longer support 2.0, or at least license some one else to support it.

In reading 3.0, it just seems like someone’s (Mike Pondsmith’s maybe?) science fiction look at a possible future. Interesting but not Cyberpunk. I have trouble also with 3.0’s new timeline, which forces history to justify some of the weird evolutions of the “New Coke” opps, sorry "New Godzilla", while paying homage to some of the older discredited timelines (a brief Carbon Plague?). However, to those who like the newer version, I say enjoy! Whatever floats your boat!

I would say, that for guys, Luck has a LOT to do with it...... in fact, the only two influences that come as close as luck are

1. Wealth

2. Her alcohol tolerance

 

Now for chicks getting laid..... yeah, luck has nothing to do with it...... since pretty much any chick can get laid whenever she wants...... Maybe not by who she wants, but definately when

 

 

 

As for the psrostitute thing..... Honestly, While I have had a few prostitutes (and high level escorts) as NPC's, the only time it has come up as a PC was when one of my players played a Madame for an escort service.

 

Strange. I would imagine it to be a fun role if you could play it simply because of the amount of provocation you could exert without having any downsides.

 

Possibly, but most of my players have been guys, and thats not an aspect of roleplaying most of them want to explore. And I think the females that have gamed in our grouop have been reluctant to do so out of fear of the situation it puts them in in a group.

 

I do agree that it would be an interesting choice, with lots of possibilities, but most gamers aren't up to that kind of a challenge.

Yes, sad as it is, wealth and alcohol tolerance are two major factors in that equation; wealth being the most important, and alcohol tolerance for all the rest of us losers. Now, before any of you ladies jump all over me…..hmmm……let me rephrase that; before I get flamed for that statement, how many beautiful woman attach themselves to poor old guys, and how many to the rich ones?

As for prostitution, let me be very clear on this: There is NOTHING romantic about it. “Pretty Woman” is a movie, and when rich guys pick up hookers only the old and senile ones may keep them around after they are done. Although when I was growing up, the police chief from our small town threw his wife out and moved his hooker girlfriend in. Many were outraged, but that was a different time so he got away with it. Eventually, she and the chief married and she became……well, maybe not a pillar of the community, but accepted by all. I just may have shot down my whole point here, oh well.

A number of years back we started a campaign, where all the PCs were young teenage murderers (you got to choose whether you actually did the crime) that escaped during transit thru Night City after a traffic accident opened the prison transport. Being thirteen, unemployed with little cyberware to speak of, no money, a couple of polymer one shots, and crap for skills and stats, prostitution was the only recourse for a couple of us. No, it was not safe, we got beat up a lot, brutalized (and worse), but managed to survive on the edge of the combat zone. We considereed these major league "downsides", and this propelled us to find alternative lifestyles. Streetwise skills, and getting to know your area became a survival necessity. Quite by accident we formed a music group and that eventually became the Rocker Campaign I mentioned in an earlier post on this thread.

In Cyberpunk love or romantic entanglements come in two varieties:

1)Lifepath incidents in character creation that can serve as future adventure hooks or complications, and

 

2)Plotline situations generated during game play.

 

If you want to be specific about the lifepath it also affects who the character is.

 

Somebody who is unempathic might not know until there has been a disastrous relationship; you would be good at hide/evade if you're a chronic two-timer; if you have been sexually abused for any extended period of time you will desensitise yourself and lose EMP (leadership, human perception) but surprisingly gain seduction (of a certain kind of people).

 

In my world, this still boils down to INT. "Assessing situations" would probably fall under "Awareness/Notice" and would determine whether you pick Mr(s) Right when you see it.

 

I'm rather idealised now, and this is very difficult in play unless your players are extremely good. However, this "theme" has been played successfully in a Western setting so it can work. It also seems pointless to try to make something good out of something that in the book is horrible (insert analogy about unicorns and woodlice).

While I do agree with some of your reasoning and points, I think you are not considering that different people react in different ways to the same situations. Some chronic “two-timers” get caught very quickly, while others are masters of hide/evade. I have known a few people who have been sexually abused and in two situations, one is a warm and caring person who dedicates her life to helping others, and the other, is a destructive alcoholic, who tore two marriages to pieces.

Perhaps for you INT would determine picking “Mr(s) Right”, but again, I know a number of smart perceptive people who constantly get into disastrous and destructive relationships.

However, you are absolutely correct in that role-playing romantic relationships “is very difficult in play unless your players are extremely good.” A good RPG should play out like any movie or story. Having romantic/interpersonal relationships amongst the characters adds a lot to the game dynamic.

In Cyberpunk love or romantic entanglements come in two varieties:

1)Lifepath incidents in character creation that can serve as future adventure hooks or complications, and

2)Plotline situations generated during game play.

The first instance is easily taken care of with nice little charts and a couple die rolls. A little GM guidance is appropriate here too. The second is a little more complicated. It also divides into two sub groups.

2a) Relationships between NPCs and PCs

2b) Relationships between PCs

Most romantic NPC relationships in cyberpunk are of the "we hit the club and I look for a (cute chick/studly dude) and I’ll make my seduction roll now, thank you." variety. Actually, to call this a romantic situation is an injustice, but whatever. Unless the PC wishes to pursue a relationship with the NPC (yeah, right, "sure, baby, I'll call you"), it is up to the GM to decide whether the relationship continues. Such continuation often results in a psycho stalker be it your "liaison" or their erstwhile boyfriend/girlfriend.

A few years back we were doing a rocker campaign and one of the female singers picked up a rich corporate named Oscar Johnson II. After that, every one of her boyfriends met untimely deaths: drug overdoses, accidents (lots of accidents!) and disappearances. Fortunately, her corporate boyfriend (OJ 2) was always around to console her. It took the player weeks to figure it out. As a side note, OJ 2 finally offed someone with pull, and was terminated by a state executioner over dinner (check, please!).

The stickiest romantic relationships (from a role-playing perspective) are those between PCs. Often, when a couple plays in a game, they tend to drift into a game relationship also. This can be an amusing barometer of their real-life situation, especially if one drifts into a relationship with another player (whether in game or in RL).

Cyberpunk and love are two themes that don't seem to mix. Love isn't going to get you that nice job at the Corporation, unless you love the right person, namely your manager etc.

 

Also, since most of the players are guys, falling in love with the female PC is kind of....awkward...

This is quite true, but the answer is simple. It"s called role-playing. You have to be secure in your sexuality, but if your not, that's OK too. Just say, "Whoa!" Love is a rather overused word anyways. It means many things to many different people. In fact, it often means many different things to the same person. Anyway, it doesn't have to be all about sex. Let us not forget love and sex are two different (but sometimes related) issues.

Anyway, I believe that Cyberpunk and Love are two themes that mix very well. Cyberpunk often deals with the de-humanizing effect of technology on the human spirit. Love and the passion it inspires provide a revolutionary rallying cry against the smothering technological miasma that crushes society. It sticks it the Man, therefore, its Cyberpunk!

Hello all! Been punkin' for.....well a long time. Have enjoyed reading your discussions so decided might as well sign up to put my 2 cents in from time to time. Also, got to keep an eye on Destecado as he is GMing our weekly 'punk group on Saturdays here in the People's Republic of Massachusetts. We are not all the min/maxing swine he has possibly infered (well maybe a few of us, alittle bit) Anywho, hiya, hiya