Master_Drow

Huh, came back to grab some info about Run.Net and ended up here.

 

I basically stopped with CP2020, as we drew closer and closer to the date the old girl is starting to show her age. I switched over to GURPS almost exclusively a bit over a year ago and oddly the 4th edition had nothing cyberpunk.

 

So I'm writing that book now.

 

Just got to the part for netrunning and hacking thus me here looking at old Run.Net posts for inspiration. (also rehosted the document link cause it died.)

So apparently the old link died.

 

Here is a new linky.

 

I now fade back into the ether for another 4 years.

I agree on every point. Remember, if you're ever fighting a Techie, the worst thing you can do is give him time to think.

 

Although you did bring up an interesting point.

Real world engineering skills compliment CP TECH skills, the same way that an actual infantryman would be better able to use small unit tactics in game, or a player who knows how to ride horses would be able to run a horse-riding PC. The only problem would be a player who used knowledge that the PC wouldn't have.

I find it is often the otherway around, my PC has knowledge that I as a player have no idea about. Like if my Rockerboy had to give some motivational speech to rally a crowd of a thousand to march on the local embassy I don't even know where to start, what words to use, anything. But my character, with his EMP of 8 and a SA of 10, would be causing a stamped just by saying hello and flashing a smile!

 

So with the TECH skills I often find that players have no idea how to fully utilize them simply because the are not Techie people in real life. Sure I can make thermite out of children's toys, and if my character has a high enough skill then he can too. But if I handed my character sheet to another player at the table suddenly the PC becomes 'dumber' (for lack of a better word) simply because the player has never even heard of thermite, much less its base ingredients.

 

It is like the exact opposite of a player who metagames, I don't even know what to call it, it is like un-metagaming? de-metagaming? Still the point is that all PC's are just various parts of the player which he is expressing in this story. It is impossible to separate the PC and the player, short of writing a play where the characters/players are just actors force fed lines and actions by some script the GM wrote. Which we can call agree, is not a fun game.

I personally don't interpret the Jury Rig skill in the way you do above, except for maybe the camera thing. Oh, go ahead and tap the floor looking for the joists under the floor while a borg is attacking. You'll be paste before you know it.

Tap? My training as an engineer lets me know that the standard wall has a stud every 16 inches, center to center, the corners are often double studs. So, with that and a bit of estimating I could fairly accurately guess where a wall stud was by knowing that about 2 inches from a corner is a stud center, 16 inches from that is another stud center, another 16 inches, another stud center, etc. So with a fairly quick look I could probably find a stud to within a few inches, my 12mm SMG would do the actual finding.

 

Now floor joists are commonly every 6 feet. Using basically the same idea as above I could tell you approximately where a joist was. My 7.62mm Assault rifle would be my stud finder in this instance.

 

So, my basic drafting class has allowed me to fairly accurately know the weak points of a building. Now that is a Tech skill. The question is which skill? I would probably use either demolitions (as destroying buildings is its job), maybe a basic tech at VERY DIFF, or any expertise skill such as Civil Engineering or the like.

 

 

Granted it does help that I have years of real world engineering training to help me, so I can probably get more millage out of the same skills.

Skill Level...Bonus

1-3.............0

4-5...........+1

7-8...........+2

9..............+3

10............+4

Where is 6?

 

 

Also, I personally find the techie as a very powerful class. Run across a door that is locked with card scanner? Jury Rig it, now it is open for 1d6+1 turns. Need to disable a security camera but don't have access to the computer it is connected to? Some Basic Tech and you can blind it, or jam it into a useless position (like have it look at a wall 2 inches away). Come across a Full Borg and don't have much in the way of anti-borg munitions? A few quick Tech rolls and you could know where the floor joists are, a few well placed shots and that floor is not going to hold any borg. Hope the borg likes falling damage.

 

In short the Tech stat is not underpowered at all. It just needs to be applied in non-conventional ways.

 

The worst thing you can do is give a techie enough time to think. The more he thinks the crazier the plan will become, and with his skills, it might just work.

If the die roll is less than or equal to the PC's / NPC's skill level then the initial roll is just a +1, added to the skill level and atribute (to determine success or failure of skill roll)

 

If the die roll exceeds the level of the PC's / NPC's skill lvel, then it it a true botch and the PC / NPC rolls on the botch table.

I have done a similar thing. If the character rolls a 1 then they roll 1d10 if the result is under their luck score it is a 1. If the roll is over their luck score then they fumble, and I get to grin an evil grin and pull out my fumble chart.

 

You guys are never going to hire me now

Don't worry, when I become a multi-billionaire and buy the IP rights for CP2020 I'll hire you Wis.

 

But I am excited for a re-release, I have been meaning to by hard copies of the books but they are now "classics" and sell for ridiculous amounts of money. Finally I will be able to own my own copies!

Neurologically, we're only wired for a certain amount of sensory input

Actually, this not correct. The brain has proven to be very plastic, it has the ability to add new senses fairly quickly.

 

For example: Infrared sense Here the rat was implanted with an infrared sensor in its skin, so when exposed to infrared light it "felt" it. The rat learned how to use this new sense in just a few weeks.

 

Exhibit B: Telepathic senses Here two rats were connected and they were able to relay information about their environments to each other. They could incorporate an entire other rats senses in just a few months.

(The most interesting thing about the telepathy is the idea of a "brain net" discussed at the end of the article.)

 

So really it would appear that their is no computational limit to the brain and senses. However, at some point you run out of places on the body to put such things.

 

Example 3: Tadpole with an eye on its butt. So sure you could be like this tadpole and put eyes in the back of your head but that means custom helmets, no hair, etc.

 

As for interference, depends on biologic vs technological improvements. I think I am going to have fun with a few of my cybered up characters and a large crane magnet. Or maybe just a bunch of electromagnets placed all over the compound to mess with their senses. Unless of course my characters spring for the extra faraday cage, however that can only work on some systems.

I love giving characters extra info based on their extra senses, it makes them feel like that two grand they spent on thermal vision was actually useful. Like you can tell how long the target car has been parked just by how cool the engine is. Or if you are entering a room and the light bulb is still warm you know an enemy is near. Now the player could have gone and felt the thing, but with thermals they can see it from across the room. Snazy.

Planetary Resources a space mining company.

* Polish idiom - a perch tends to open its bony fins when a large animal attempts to swallow it whole, driving spikes into soft parts of a throat. Therefore "to stand like a perch in one's throat" would be, basically, to rebel and refuse to cooperate.

From my understanding, usually the perch and the thing eating it both die in the process. As a result the idiom often takes the implied meaning that you will be so stubborn that you would rather die than give in, as long as it meant that you won.

 

"The key to strategy... is not to choose a path to victory, but to choose so that all paths lead to a victory."

— Cavilo, The Vor Game

I would actually classify it as borderline transhumanist. (spoilers ahead) the whole part with Motoko uploading herself to the net, and the swapping of brain cases to get change bodies is classic transhumanism. However, Motoko was the first to do a full psyche upload so you could say it is set at the end of Cyberpunk and at the beginning of transhumanism.

I think I might just spend the rest of my life in college, seems easier than dealing with the real world...

In the background of the video at one point you can see a wall of text (Pic of Text), here is what it says.

Do you like our latest creation? We certainly hope so! You may remember that we sometimes send you guys secret messages like this. it’s a great way for us to speak right to you instead of burying ourselves in corporate mumo-jump. So let’s begin!

 

First of all—have you noticed all the details in our teaser (yes, it’s a teaser, we’ll make a proper trailer in the future)? If you know the Cyberpunk setting, there are some things you can spot, like implants—look for the weapon hands and the real skin—corporate emblems that should look familiar, and more happy hunting!

 

You’re probably curious about the release date. It’s currently scheduled a way off, in 2015, but in truth, the delivery date is more like, “when it’s done.” We will release Cyberpunk to you when we’re convinced it is nothing but pure, refined, unadulterated awesome. we want it to be the most kick ass futuristic RPG ever—ok, maybe this sounds pretty bully, but it is our actual goal! You judge if we deliver it!

 

Ok—and you may wonder why we announced our game so early before the release. The reason is that we’re still building our dev team. So if you are a talented dude or dudette, willing to work in a really different company (gamers rule & boring corporate stuff drools!) on a super ambitious project, send us your application right now: careers@cdprojektred.com

 

So, you want to know what kind of game Cyberpunk 2077 will be? The short description is that it will be a story-heavy, nonlinear, open world RPG based on teh well known Cyberpunk pen & paper system and setting. Building open world games is osmething we are mastering right now, and we believe that properly joining nonlinear gameplay with excellent story telling will bring a totally new quality. Hmm. We’ll tell some more about it soon!

 

And that’s not all that’s new. We are about to reveal our other project, which is much closer to being completed. And yes, it will also be a fully open-world game with an intense story. You can probably guess the game we’re talking about. ;-) On the 5th of February it will all be clear.

 

So stay tuned, as we will have quite a lot to show and tell you soon!

 

We are waiting for you on our newly created forum called Afterlife—what other name could we have chosen for it?

 

CD Projekt RED Team

 

So the current estimate is 2015, subject to change as needed.

And finally, because 110mb.com is still down (seriously, worst host ever) I have uploaded some heavily requested files to drop box and made the links to them available on the front page.

At this rate might I suggest changing hosts. And if 110mb has a contract with you then tell them they either need to fix your site or you will hit this with a breach of contract. Heck just drop them and if they try to go after you tell them they violated contract. This is getting ridiculous.

 

A quick google search got me a dozen hosting companies that have amazing reviews and are less than 80 bucks a year, a bunch are less than 50 bucks.

Good heavens Mr.Drow...google docs. Just use that. Seriously...how many cam-girl popup adverts are there in the world...

Seriously? I guess my ad block works well then..

 

Here is google docs, and oh god, don't try to run this online, download it.

 

I downloaded it and it worked for me.

Drop i to me and I can host it off with my Google Drive, allowing anyone with the link to edit it - or just to access and download it, if this is a preferable solution for you.

I have added another link using a different hoster. Mike feel free to add it to a dropbox, download only would probably be best just because the table is a bit of a processor hog and running online may not be a good idea, but do whatever you want. I made this for the community so the community could use it.

 

Back up link.

 

Too bad that 4shared has started the register only thing, I rather liked it.

Here is the excel spread sheet, sorry it took so long, got busy.

 

5.56 - 1000 roller.xls

 

Back up link

 

Google Docs link

 

Basically you can put in the Armor, To Hit Difficulty number, and your To Hit Ability (stat+skill+mods) and the table will take your ability add 1d10, subtract the difficulty number, and then rolls a number of 5.56 (5d6) attacks. Then armor is subtracted from each attack (minimum zero) and finally the bullets damage is totaled.

 

Then the table does it another 999 times, for a total of 1,000 rolls under the conditions that you specified. Finally, it gives the average damage before and after armor, based on those 1,000 rolls.

 

Page 2 is a frequency table so you can quickly see of you got a skewed set of rolls or if it a fairly good bell curve.

 

 

WARNING: This table is a beast, so it can several minutes to do ANY action on, as it may have to roll upwards of 80,000 dice, depending on what numbers you put in.

In the background of the video at one point you can see a wall of text (Pic of Text), here is what it says.

 

Do you like our latest creation? We certainly hope so! You may remember that we sometimes send you guys secret messages like this. it’s a great way for us to speak right to you instead of burying ourselves in corporate mumo-jump. So let’s begin!

 

First of all—have you noticed all the details in our teaser (yes, it’s a teaser, we’ll make a proper trailer in the future)? If you know the Cyberpunk setting, there are some things you can spot, like implants—look for the weapon hands and the real skin—corporate emblems that should look familiar, and more happy hunting!

 

You’re probably curious about the release date. It’s currently scheduled a way off, in 2015, but in truth, the delivery date is more like, “when it’s done.” We will release Cyberpunk to you when we’re convinced it is nothing but pure, refined, unadulterated awesome. we want it to be the most kick ass futuristic RPG ever—ok, maybe this sounds pretty bully, but it is our actual goal! You judge if we deliver it!

 

Ok—and you may wonder why we announced our game so early before the release. The reason is that we’re still building our dev team. So if you are a talented dude or dudette, willing to work in a really different company (gamers rule & boring corporate stuff drools!) on a super ambitious project, send us your application right now: careers@cdprojektred.com

 

So, you want to know what kind of game Cyberpunk 2077 will be? The short description is that it will be a story-heavy, nonlinear, open world RPG based on teh well known Cyberpunk pen & paper system and setting. Building open world games is osmething we are mastering right now, and we believe that properly joining nonlinear gameplay with excellent story telling will bring a totally new quality. Hmm. We’ll tell some more about it soon!

 

And that’s not all that’s new. We are about to reveal our other project, which is much closer to being completed. And yes, it will also be a fully open-world game with an intense story. You can probably guess the game we’re talking about. ;-) On the 5th of February it will all be clear.

 

So stay tuned, as we will have quite a lot to show and tell you soon!

 

We are waiting for you on our newly created forum called Afterlife—what other name could we have chosen for it?

 

CD Projekt RED Team

Anything that involves calculating fractions will not speed the game up for the average party.

(2 M - 3 A + N) * H = 4 x damage

 

or

 

(2 M - 3 A + N) * H * 0.25 = damage

 

or

((2 M - 3 A + N) * H) / 4 = damage

 

126.875 total damage still seems like a high number. Before armor, that means a total die roll of around 267 (126.875+(14*10)=266.875, rounded up). That's nearly within the top 5% of all total die rolls, statistically.

 

The top 5% of all die rolls would result in damage 129 or higher, and the top 25% would result in damage 115 or higher. In fact, 90% of all rolls of 70 dice (that's 14 hits of 5d6 rounds) fall between 269 and 221 total result. After SP10 armor, that's 81 and 129 damage. Only 5% of all rolls would lie beneath 81, and only 5% would fall above 129.

 

But you did the iterative calculation too. Wonder why the numbers are different? I'd have to think on it more. It must come from the variation of each bullet value in relation to the armor, which changes the 140 I'm subtracting from the statistical dice roll. Using 140 is assuming a normal distribution of the results, which it should be (meaning, as many rolls as come out low, there should be a comparable number that come out high, evening out the result).

If no armor

17.5 = average damage per bullet

14.5 = average number of hits

 

Therefor: Average damage per Full Auto attack = 253.75

This is a very back of the napkin type calculation but as you can see it puts the damage in the right range.

 

 

Now with armor it gets a bit more tricky.

If armor = 10

average damage per bullet = 17.5

average number of hits = 14.5

 

So it would appear that on average you would do 7.5 points of damage per shot and get 14.5 hits for a total of 108.75 damage.

 

However you are forgetting all of the max damage shots and all of the min damage shots. These are not distributed linearly they are bell curved shaped. So we need to know the number of bullets that beat the minimum number, in this case all of the bullets that are greater than 10 damage will penetrate the armor.

If I remember correctly the Standard deviation is around 4 and u = 17.5 so Z = -1.875. This gives us around 96.9% of the bullets that beat the armor, out of the 14.5 bullets that hit the target 14.05 bullets will do damage. Now this damage could be between 11 (minimum number to beat the armor) and 30 (maximum damage the bullet could do). So 30 - 11 = 19 and 19 / 2 = 9.5 so the average damage of a bullet that penetrates is 9.5 damage. We have 14.05 penetrations, for a total of 133.475 damage. The number I calculated with my posted equation was 126.875, and the number my spread sheet gave was 129.48. The very minor damage discrepancy difference comes from the fact that the standard deviation is not exactly 4 and other minor assumptions made to keep this simple, however for a very back of the napkin type calculation I think you see what is going on. Thus I assert that my equation holds.

 

 

P.S. Malek I am working on getting the Spread sheet ready for prime time. I'll be posting it later.

Lethal as hell (and an elegant equation), but these numbers seem awfully high to me.

 

Taking example 2, for example, that's 14 hits (rounding down) with a 5d6, against SP 10 armor.

 

My estimates for the die roll put ~97.7% of all possible combined die rolls under 274, or about 20 per bullet. That's two standard deviations (14.289=sqrt((5*14*6^2-1)/12)) above the average (245 = 14*5*3.5). Versus SP10 armor, that's 140 damage after armor (14*(20-10)). And that's in the top 2.3% of rolls of 70 die (70=14*5).

 

But your equation gives 254 damage, in that scenario.

 

Granted, using standard deviations to estimate large die rolls is not perfect, but the difference in values is over 100 points.

Oh of course I would type it wrong. Frack me. Sorry, you are correct, I forgot to divide H by two.

 

(M - 1.5 A + N/2) * (H/2) = Damage

M = 30

A = 10

N = 5

H = 14.5

 

(30 - 15 + 2.5) * (7.25) = 126.875 dmg

 

During the process of making this equation I made a spread sheet that does 1,000 actual attacks (it rolls a ton of dice and takes upwards of minutes to run each time), this fancy spread sheet gives me an average roll of 129.48 dmg. So the equation still holds (once I put in the right numbers... )

 

Ok, so I have updated my posts to the correct equation, I really feel a bit foolish for posting with such a simple error. The bad equation would give you a damage number twice as large as it should be. Sorry bout that.

 

Quick Note: If you use the alternate equation that uses average bullet damage instead of max bullet damage H is NOT divide by 2. That is where my typo came from.

 

All equations posted in my earlier posts have been amended and double checked.

(M - (1.5 x A) + (N/2)) * (H/2) = Damage

This would be correct.

 

Having played in one of Malek's games, it's hard to imagine him using less damage than the average

To be fair the only Malek's only got really off when the number of hits got really large, when armor got small, or when the To Hit number got big/small.

 

What value changes per number of rounds fired? Or is this damage done per 10 rounds?

Turns out that as long as you fire at least as many rounds as you hit with it does not matter. The H is the number of hits, on average, that will hit the target. If your H says that you hit with 30 rounds but you only fired 15 bullets then just put H as 15, the math with deal with everything else.

 

 

Here I'll break down H more.

 

H = Average number of hits.

Skill + Stat + Mods + 5.5 - To Hit number = H

 

EXAMPLE

Shooting at a close target (Difficulty 15) with 6 skill, 5 stat, and assuming you fire 30 bullets from the gun. Also remember that on a d10 the average roll will be a 5.5

 

RIF[6] + REF[5] + FULL_AUTO [+3] + 1d10[5.5] - DIFF[15] = 4.5 hits on average.

 

 

EXAMPLE 2

If you ambush a target at close range (Difficulty 15) who has been caught in a bear trap, and you're using a laser sight, you have 6 skill, 5 stat, and assuming you fire 30 bullets from the gun.

 

RIF[6] + REF[5] + {Acc +1, Full Auto +3, Target Immobile +4, Ambush +5} + 1d10[5.5] - DIFF[15] = 14.5 hits on average.

 

 

EXAMPLE 3

If you ambush a target at point blank range (Difficulty 10) who has been caught in a bear trap, and you're using a laser sight, you have 6 skill, 5 stat, and assuming you fire 10 bullets from the gun.

 

RIF[6] + REF[5] + {Acc +1, Full Auto +1, Target Immobile +4, Ambush +5} + 1d10[5.5] - DIFF[10] = 17.5 hits on average. However you only fired 10 bullets so you can't get 17.5 hits, instead you only get 10.

 

Running the rest of the equation, if you're using 5.56 ammo (5d6), and the target has 10 armor.

(M - 1.5 A + N/2) * H = Damage

(30 - (1.5 x 10) + (5 / 2)) * (10 / 2) = 87.5 damage.

 

I would probably spread this damage evenly over the target, or just say all bullets hit the torso, whatever makes you happy, he is dead anyway.

Oh and Malek, the reason that you do more damage with this equation is because in EXAMPLE 3 the armor is low enough that even an average damage hit would penetrate, your equation was only looking at high band damage, mine adds back in the average damage hits. So when the target has low armor, or is hit with a bunch of bullets, those average damage hits start to add up, and that can lead to a lot of extra damage.

On the plus side, turns out it was relatively easy to add the mid-band damage to your equation, I could add the low band damage (and would probably be even more accurate) but since the equation is over 90% accurate I decided that I did not need to complicate anything more than needed.

According to the article the quantum radar uses polarized photons to detect targets. So basically it uses special light.

 

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/143353-...to-be-invisible

 

The Canadians countered it already. Worse, now the attacker is invisible to the human eye.

I am starting a new campaign and was looking for a way to speed up combat with full auto weapons. Searching the forums I found this old post by Malek. I ran the numbers and found that while it does accelerate the full auto combat it also is wildly innacurate under some conditions. So I did the only sensible thing and spent the last 3 days running numbers in excel until I came up with a new equation that was much more accurate.

 

I present.

 

(M - 1.5 A + N/2) * (H/2) = Damage

 

Now this may look a bit complex, but it is actually very quick, straight forward, and over 91% accurate to how the dice would actually roll.

 

M = Max Damage, i.e. if the gun does 5d6 damage then the Max Damage is 30.

A = Armor of the target.

N = Number of dice per bullet. I.e. if the gun does 5d6 damage then N = 5

H = Average number of hits. I.e. Skill + Stat + Mods + 5.5 - To Hit number (Why 5.5? Because the average roll on 1d10 is 5.5)

 

There are also two optional rules to follow that will make this equation even more accurate, use them if you wish.

1) If H is less than 0 then you do no damage. (this makes the game a bit faster)

2) If H is greater than 0, but you do no damage (probably because armor reduces it to zero). Then you do Damage equal to M - A. Ie Max Damage - Armor (this makes the numbers more accurate when armor is very large.)

 

 

There is also a variant equation that uses average damage instead of max damage, however I think that max damage is much easier to calculate. Still for this who care (V - 0.25*N - 0.75A) * H = Damage where V = average damage, N = number of dice rolled per bullet, A = Armor of Target, and H = average number of hits.

 

Here is a graph for those who love them.

 

Feel free to use this and let the bullets fly!