Interrupt

This is most certainly not intended to spark a gun law debate and so has intentionally not been placed in The Smoking Room. If you would like to discuss that aspect, please create a thread for it there.

Wireless smart-gun technology is a reality.

\\\\\\\\\\\\ NTRPT

I fall on the "let 'em live …barely" side of the fence.

For me, gaming is about telling a story and less about absolute realism. What separates the story the players are involved in from the normal day-to-day of 7+ billion people in the rest of the world is that it's an AMAZING story. This means circumstances will be unusual and exist outside the standard curve of possible events.

In practice the people playing a game have to invest valuable time and energy in coming together to play - this should NEVER be wasted by making them re-roll characters.

The best reason to punish but not kill is that it makes the game so much better. There are so many consequences to unleash on characters that build the interest of the game and character alike. The more they survive, the more scars they accumulate, the more they will be invested in the character and the game. The more invested they are, the more fun everyone has - which in my view is the whole point.

If a player is being an ass and really asking for it - kill the bastard and don't invite them back. If they really deserve it, give them a stupid death rather than an interesting or glorious one.

Sorry to hear it man.

Feel better soon.

Does this mean you won't have the gall to get back to your normal BS?

Yeahbut... people! People! In a room! With other people! Better chaos generation than anything!

However I fear economics are not in our favor.

I'm not sure that even if 2077 is great it will do anything to re-start the genre in terms of paper & dice games.

Interactive games where the computer handles the mundane tasks of character tracking, rules arbitration, chaos generation, not to mention visual effects, have a distinct advantage for new and old audiences alike.

Max Mike would have to update the paper version in a way that the audience resonates with in order for paper to have any kind of comeback.

I believe Mike has moved on from cyberpunk - and did so before V3 came about.

I think one of the major points to be made in criticizing works of fiction is that though SciFi may be projecting a future it is informed by the present.

…

 

If the subject matter made you uneasy, well it never hurt to be challenged by something or the other.

 

As for "not being possible".... this IS still a cyberpunk game and discussion board right?

 

This was one of the original fan-generated pieces of material I found for CyberPunk back in the day.

Blew my mind.

Great work with some of these additional ideas.

So my wife and I just spent last weekend doing a 2-day 'Active Shooter / Car-Jacking' seminar.

The seminar was taught by the head & founder of Krav Maga WorldWide; Darren Levine.

In addition to his work as a prosecuting Deputy D.A. for Los Angeles he tours the world teaching seminars to special forces, NSA, FBI, CIA, and Secret Service for the last three administrations. His focus is homicide and officer shootings (100% conviction rate) so he was also able to give a lot insight into legal aspects of self defense along with realistic statistics on how criminals tend to attack. He was a great instructor, and funny as hell.

The first day was entirely devoted to gun disarm techniques. We worked on:

• Handgun from the front
• Handgun from the side (front of arm)
• Handgun from the side (behind arm)
• Handgun to the back (any height)
• Handgun to the side of head
• Handgun to the side of head with choke from behind
• Handgun on 3rd party from behind with choke
• Handgun on 3rd party from a distance (live side)
• Handgun on 3rd party (dead side)
• Shotgun/Rifle from front
• Shotgun/Rifle to back (touching)
• Shotgun/Rifle to back (short distance)
• Shotgun/Rifle from live side
• Shotgun/Rifle from dead side
• Shotgun/Rifle 360º perimeter

• Handgun approch from driver side (no distance)
• Handgun from accute angle driver side (no distance)
• Handgun from driver side (with distance)
• Handgun from driver side (door open)
• Shotgun/Rifle for all the above
• Forced entry into vehicle (gunman from behind)

• A darkened warehouse/office building
• Loud audio running gunfire, screams, etc
• Strobes
• 8 Instructors roaming with anywhere between 1-3 guns of all types
• The nature of the space, the weather, and 60 sweaty people making the space probably 100º and muggy.
• Our only instruction was to survive.

Working with guns always chews up the fingers and hands. Early on I lost some skin on my thumb knuckle - many other people had this same injury. Darren had a cut open up on his wrist during instruction. He and the other instructors put on gloves (wish I had known to get some).

The longarm gun simulators were actual size, probably not actual weight but they were solid and heavy enough. There were rifle-stock style shotguns, 'assault' (my term) shotguns which had pistol grips in addition to a stock and a sawed-off barrel, and finally there were AR-15's which was a bitch to work with given all the little sharp pointy bits cutting you up.

We hit the bar after the second day. Now it's a day after that and we can barely move arms or shoulders. We LOVED the live simulation. We both had several successful disarms, assists (and unfortunately several deaths) each. Unfortunately now there is no way we could go to Knott's Scary farm or any other haunted house due to the fact that we would most certainly get startled and accidentally beat the shit out of some poor mook in a zombie mask.

We have to get all the gun stuff down in order to get past the next test and this training helped amazingly. Darren mentioned that many of the secret service students didn't believe that civilians would be able to perform the exercises. By the end of it, he said that some of the civilians were able to execute disarms better than some of the trained participants.

If you get a chance to train with Darren Levine in whatever country you're in - take it.

Happy belated!

Thanks.

I'm already not looking forward to the next test.

12 hours culminating in 2vs1 sparring.

Here is my very late "Thank you!"

-->THANK YOU!<--

UPDATE: We took our Level 2 test back in June

This test was comprised of the entirety of the 1st level and an equal portion focused on 2nd level for a total of 8 gruelling hours.

This test holds the new record for the most difficult thing I've done physically.

We trained better this year over last year. We intensified our training schedule and adjusted our diets (no alcohol :'( ) 4 months in advance. We did about 4-8 hours per week of classes.

To give you a taste for the warm-ups; we had to do sequences of 10 lunges, 10 pushups, 10 leaps, several times …around the building.

Towards the end of the day they moved into drills of 7 vs 1 in which you had to stand in the center of a circle, eyes closed, spinning, and any one of the six people around you could initiate a given set of attacks. You had to effectively neutralize the attack and reset.

Another drill involved attacking a single target non-stop while 2-3 other people could attack you at random intervals with a selection of different attacks.

All of this while throwing in elements designed simply to wear you down - like rapidly having you execute fall-breaks. Get up, fall down, get up, fall down, faster, faster, faster.

I went through a gallon and a half of water during the test. That is of course when they would give us 30 seconds to run and drink any. They meant RUN!

Happily I did not vomit, nor did I pass out; regardless of the fact that I easily could have done both.

The instructors have asked my wife and I to assist classes more often. Primarily this entails being what we call "the meat-puppet" and acting as a living punching bag for the instructor to demonstrate on. You still have to do everything everyone else is doing, but you get a little extra fun at the hands of the black-belts.

In any case I've levelled up. Still doing Krav. Still enjoying it. Slowly improving.

- Interrupt

</update>

These rules were notoriously prone to munchkinism - the game always benefitted from GM and players being mature about rules interpretation.

All of the above suggestions are great for managing the punch/kick issue, but strictly speaking you will find many many rules which leave exploitable holes like this.

From what I remember, stun damage is basically counted along the damage track as if it were real for the sake of the various effects like going unconscious or inhibiting movement but it left no lasting wound for the sake of healing or causing mortal danger.

Many people track this by making a hashmark going one direction "\" for stun and a hashmark in the other direction "/" for lethal. This has the nice effect of creating an "X" for every fully damaged mark on the track.

It might look something like this:

LGHT--SRS--CRIT--MORT

XXXX--XXXX--\\\\--

In this case I believe you roll saves against the effects found in the critical section for losing consciousness, movement, etc but you are only in Serious in terms of healing and having to make eventual death saves.

Stun damage wears off quickly with no lasting effects.

As far as stun vs death saves, some GMs rule that a passed death save is an automatic stun, others allow for separately rolling both. See which method works for you.

Being married is a good thing - I can attest to that.

When Malek was IMing Comp and I before the big day he was nervous, but now that the big day has come and gone things will start to settle into place.

Congratulations Malek, we're all happy for you!!!!

If she willingly chose to be with you she must be into Cyberpunk, get her to join VFTE. We won't be mean.

Timely.

I have no end of troubles with my hosts.... 110mb.com is the absolute shittiest web host in history.

Not to state the obvious, but - switch hosts.

The game can be filled with cheese, but it is honestly a LOT of fun to play.

We modified it of course (some of the yo-gang rules were hard to live with IIRC) but it is a much lighter and more relaxed style of gaming without necessarily losing any of the intensity that Cyberpunk has.

One of my favorite aspects is that unlike Cyberpunk, it was practically impossible to simply blast your way through problems. Your enemies were always, bigger, stronger, better equipped, and more organized than you which meant having to be more creative rather than violent.

The Carbon Plague powers were not realistic, but once you simply granted that and rolled with it, they were fun to use.

All in all it was a great game buried under a heap of cheese.

It is purty.

I have been working on how a design could be as visually appealing and yet convey more functional information. I was led to this link by a friend who works to create functional security software of this type.

Well, I had the book lying around and seeing as how Comp needed it, I thought why not leave dreary southern California and make the hop over to sunny London to give it to him personally.

- Comp has a much finer beard than mine, though I am working on improving it at present.

- Kebabs were worth it.

- We did understand him with relative ease. Comp has a golden voice with smooth, subtle tones.

- We in fact covered the length of Portobello Rd. at least 3 times to facilitate my wife's shopping needs and in part due to the lack of cash machines (we call them ATMs here in the states)

- The Spy Store was far funnier than it should have been given how seriously it took itself. Sadly we did not purchase any bullet-proof clothing or night-vision aparatus.

- Every attempt to murder Comp was thwarted by his adept espionage skills and lightning fast reflexes.

- Compañero was every bit the scholar and gentleman that one might imagine him to be, and furthermore is an excellent chap to show one the finer things in London. He suffered my presence marvelously!

If the question is how to come up with a realistic premise for a sectioned off area which has been burnt out and now left to rot, that is a different issue.

What if the area is relatively small, or was originally several different zones which were walled and maintained for other reasons.

• Arcologies - Ironically the combat zone could once have been a ritzy area but after some kind of catastrophe it was abandoned and all the walls which previously held the rabble out are now used to keep them in.

• Research Facilities - Some massive corporation in better times had this area set aside for housing folks to work on some special sensitive something before catastrophe happened. Now the zone has been appropriated by looters, squatters and the like.

• Former Military Facility - Same scenario as above.

• Concentration Camp - We have such former camps here in the US, some creativity about how bad things got during the collapse could invent some that are closer to the city.

• Combination of the above.

In these situations its possible to conceive that there were walls and guard towers in use before being abandoned. The idea that squatters would move in to any area left alone is very realistic, the next thing would simply be a good reason for the rest of society to exist near enough to the site to enforce the wall to some degree.

Newly discovered resources. Gentrification in the bordering zones. A rebuilding city government allied with organized crime might seize upon an available site to herd crime problems into in order to create the illusion of improvement in nicer areas.

It's possible to envision ways in which a wall with checkpoints could have been built with the support of society for a different purpose at a different time and has merely evolved into the walled-off combat zones that would make for a fun game setting.

F*cking magents!

Juggalos demonstrate that people are actually willing to dress like deranged clowns and cause mayhem. Now, these may be idiot, degenerate, junkyard clowns, but they are clowns.

For every legitimately dangerous group, there are vastly more poseurs and wannabees pretending. This holds true for any type of gang, military group, or martial arts school. The fact that there is anyone willing to dress and act like Juggalos, let alone have it tattooed onto them hints at the possibility that some percentage takes it further. And at the very least, it supports the fictional premise that a legit gang might do the same.

So, no, 99.999999% of this group would not qualify for edgerunner competition. But then again, that hold's true for the entire world population. Maybe most Bozos in Night City are wannabees and 99 out of 100 are just morons who wear makeup, listen to crappy music, and commit petty crimes, it only takes a small core group to do some real damage.

So keep some magnets handy.

Yeah, I always wondered who came up with the Bozo Posergang. And what drug was that person on. Knowing what is written in the Night City Sourcebook about them - they are unable to hide among general population because of their grottesqe biomods, are known to be dangerous psychotics and - due to their implanted bombs - present a ready danger to the general public.

 

How do they manage to still exist :?:

Have you heard of Juggalos? Unfortunately violent, degenerate clown-gangs are a thriving idiotic subculture here. I would imagine that only a small percentage are truly serious about their violence, but with so many of them all wearing the same makeup and carrying hatchets, how can you tell which is which?

The Federal Bureau of Investigation's 2011 National Gang Threat Assessment classifies Juggalos as a "loosely-organized hybrid gang" whose transient nature makes them difficult to monitor effectively, and stated that certain subsets of the subculture engage in criminal activity and violence. According to the report, "Transient, criminal Juggalo groups pose a threat to communities due to the potential for violence, drug use/sales, and their general destructive and violent nature."

And that is real life, not from a game. If only it wasn't true.

• "Secure" Coffin hotels - Actual security will vary widely. Some will have units with heavy metal and bullet-proof glass tube doors connecting directly to the street with a pay-interface to unlock the door.

Some will have multiple levels, maybe a small hallway with stairs, maybe ladders, maybe even ladders on the outside as well. A higher level may be safer from intruders, but getting in and out will be slower. Make a choice.

Some places will be fronts for …other types of business. Some will simply be a cheap way to trick marks into kidnapping themselves for all sorts of unpleasantness. Buyer beware.

• Actually secure hotels - Cost more, but provide legit security and have a reputation to uphold. Often the security and reputation are protected by organized crime, other times they are protected by respect and genuine credibility and goodwill …and firepower.

• Community Centers - In the darkest parts of the city in the darkest cities in the world, there are still people trying to make a bad situation better. This goes for shanty towns, favelas, barrios, ghettos, combat zones, whatever. Somewhere there are good people who are down on their luck or simply have an irrational belief in humanity who choose to stay, or simply can't leave, who spend their time and effort trying to turn the tide in small ways wherever they can.

These people aren't stupid. For anyone to survive, they have to have their share of guts, smarts, and methods. For them to want to make a difference they have to have more than their share of courage, vision, and grit.

It has happened on more than one occasion, in more than one place that these kind of people have made a difference. Sometimes they even manage to start a movement or turn a rough area into a thriving cultural engine.

…often only to be pushed out when the rich folks decide they want the food, art, and cultural cache of living in these formerly rough areas and start gentrifying.

• STREET FOOD!!!! - Often seriously tasty. All over the world one of the most common stories is that of poor people being forced to invent ways to make crap ingredients tolerably tasty. Such innovation often leads to amazing developments which are later stolen and appropriated by the very wealthy, again leaving the poor to start over with whatever scraps the rich leave them with.

Research your favorite foods, or at least the foods that are well-known in your region and you will often find a story early on of how that dish was devised by simple people of humble means working with what they had.

No one says that all of it will be good, or that it will be safe to eat.

• Courier services

• "Psychics" and Fortune Tellers - Of course they are all bullshit con artists …except that one who supposedly has a flawless track record. Willing to find out? What if they tell you something you DO NOT want to hear? Everyone has their hustle.

• Mattress Store - They'll give you a great deal! How the hell do they stay in business?!?

• Burnt out storefronts - Let's be honest, this will be the most common business in town.

Regarding the original question there have been more than enough detailed and thought-out answers so far.

My only addition would be that from a game perspective, I tend to take a brief overview of the available mechanics which might come into play and then assess the level of game detail, cinematic quality, player commitment, and significance of the element in question - and come up with a method for quick rolling on the fly.

I play off the cuff and would more than allow heli-sniping to be attempted by a character that wanted to. It may be more difficult, but if it adds to the game then hell yes they have a shot!

If the player has a skill which is semi-applicable but not tailored to the the task at hand, you can give it a flat penalty or allow its use at 50%.

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Regarding your time here on the board…

Don't worry too much about pissing people off, but don't get hurt when they bite back.

Everyone here has sniped at everyone else to some degree at some point. However, I doubt you'll find a better bunch of drunken debauched old farts anywhere else on the net.

Don't be afraid to ask questions, but remember that no one here is looking for friends. They may not be opposed to finding them, but they sure aren't looking. Pretty much all the people who still kick it around here have been doing so for a loooooooong time. (not including myself)

You will probably make more headway by adding in addition to asking. Put something out that people can chew on or add to their own games and you will probably get a warmer reception.

With that said, neither Stray nor Mike even brandished a weapon in this situation. Don't play the offended card until someone actually draws blood. Probably not even then.