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MonSTeR

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Everything posted by MonSTeR

  1. Bloodbath finds his bike in good time, and the old Harley starts like a dream it's engine rumbling to life as only a Harley does. Checkinghis watch he realises he's going to have to hurry if he's to make it on time for the drinks with Tony Benedetto and he knows it won't be long before the other members his team will be making their way to Gandolfini's back in Little Italy.
  2. I'd like to say I do exactly what Chrys does, but I can't It is along similar lines though, when I'm creating a character, often I'll have a stereotype in my head, coupled with an idea of where I want to go with the character. It might be based on an existing character from Films, books, TV or comics, or it might be someone I've met and so on. Then I'll do a basic framework of Chrys' system. I'm perhaps not so specific as to have a rigid set of questions and sometimes the character gets bent about a bit to fit it into the games' setting, age changed to remember certain key events or escape others and so on. I also try to avoid completely outlandish features and like to talk with the GM and other players in order to make sure that there's some commonality between the group of PC. I think it's very important for a group of characters to have at least a 50% or so overlap with each of the other characters in the group, not in skills and abilities, but in terms of styles and outlooks and backgrounds and the like. There's got to be a half decent reason for folks to stay together as a team other than "You all meet in a bar" or "you all wake up in the same jail cell" or "you've all recieved a letter from the same mysterious person who's told you to meet here under this bridge at the stroke of midnight" Then I'll try and shoe-horn the character into the system. I'll look at skills and stats at the same time, balancing the two out within the given levels and then play around with them till I get a balance. On the other hand sometimes I'll just roll up a character exactly as per the rulebook and fit a background around those events. I Think it's handy to be able to do both. As a GM, I like to encourage a lot of conversation between the players and myself as to their PCs. It avoids the unbalanced characters, with one character who has combat sense +10, Rifle +10, SMG +10 and Martial arts TKD +10, but still can't switch on a microwave, and the other 4 characters interested in playing the stock exchange and running the net to find blackmail info I'm not saying I design the characters for them, but I do tell them when something is going to adversely affect the gameplay or isn't in keeping with the rest of the game. I think conversation on the topic of team creation rather than character creation is useful reinforces the group's "togetherness" not just in terms of the characters, but also the players themselves.
  3. Even though the "Guns... Lots of guns" thread seems very chaotic, there's really only been one point discussed in any detail, "initiative" which I think many folks would agree is the crux of the combat sequence with regards to the need for a re-write. I have a little list already and would gladly post it up as to what happens as far as combat goes as to when Joe Q. Public's area would take over, but I'd also like to know the framework we're working under, as to whether thisis a re-write of the interlock system, the creation of a NEW system, or something in between. I have to say I think the best option for us at the moment is to re-write the rules as they stand, creating a new system has already been done for the game and still hasn't seen release over the last 3 or 4 years it's been scheduled to be. As I see it the version we produce has to be compatible with the 2020 rulebook, not only for the pruposes of aligning us with Rtal's remit and philosphy, but also for anyone who'd be interested in reading/playing the product.
  4. MonSTeR

    ammo types

    Quote (VermillionStar @ Oct. 03 2002,21:30) Having nice, fat, juicy rounds available "somewhere" is important for any CP2020 game; the PCs swoon over getting it - or you should make it's availability such that they do. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight !!!
  5. http://www.cyberpunk.co.uk/forum....9;t=826 http://www.cyberpunk.co.uk/forum....;t=1219
  6. Quote Please tell me how to create my own game board; I can not find any information or buttons anywhere on the site for that. The only thing I can do is post replies or new threads in some specific room, but I can't create a new room under the online games - topic. We are actually migrating from another site. Also, if there is any way to prevent people who just happen to wonder in from posting in the game boards, please tell me about it; looks to me that password-protection for specific boards might be a good development direction, actually. This sort of feature seems to be lacking almost everywhere where free board hosting is offered, and since you are required to register on this website before you can post in the first place, the framework for better access control is already in place. To create your own game board you need to nicely ask Cyberjunk, the board's super-administrator concerning the fact you'd like to start a game here, and if he's agreeable (which he normally is cos he's a fantastic guy) he'll organise one for you. Courtesy is the main way to stop people posting "in game" if they don't have a character there, we've never needed password protection as far as I know, we just trust each other and behave like sensible rational adults.
  7. I dont think anyone is in charge The decision I'd make is to include it with the disclaimer that some folks prefer to exclude it's use as they feel it is overpowering and detracts from the realism whereas others feel it's inclusion is beneficial and that it adds to the game's realism. I like bookwyrm's idea, but I'm afraid I'd make that an additional bonus of combat sense rather than an alternate one
  8. Quote (psychophipps @ Oct. 02 2002,20:46) *getting the feeling that he's talking to walls that speak* Yes, all of that can indeed be explained by Combat Sense. Hell, I can explain how some Hindu tech geeks are great with their stuff from worshipping sacred gawdamn cows, if I really wanted to. The point i'm making is that they don't need Combat Sense. You can make a Deathsolo™ without giving them a huge bonus to initiative and combat-related awareness based on a skill that is iffy at best in terms of play balance. Yes, they should kick ass but it should be a factor of actual skill and stats that can be directly compared to other skills and stats all characters and roles have access to rather than some semi-mystical danger sense/situational awareness that only certain people can get. But Mark, we're saying that Combat Sense should be an "open" skill... Yes, you are at that. However, the skill is still unbalanced in terms of combat and people shouldn't be automatically screwed in combat because they didn't think that some random skill didn't fit your character concept. But Mark, some of us are saying that Combat Sense should be toned down in power... Yes, some of you are at that. However, by castrating it you will simply push players towards cyberware for the hyped-up initiative bonus which is where it should be anyway. If they really need initiative a lot more than everyone else, just point them to a high Reflex stat and reflex boosters which every solo worth a damn will have anyway. Why make them more broken by giving them a skill that further cranks these already massive bonuses? Holy mildly sociopathic, schitzophrenic with aggressive sexual tendencies, Batman! He's making sense! Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! ) There's no need for any skills in the system, there's no need to seperate "martial arts" into 10 or so different varieties. But they do, because it's more realistic. When you say that skills and stats should be directly comparable, they are. Some folks have no training, no experience and thus... (wait for it...) no combat sense. It's not some semi-mystical situational awareness, it's the very real situational awareness that comes from training and experience. If that experience becomes sub-conscious then yes it may even feel "mystical" to those who have it. Most of those I know who I'd consider to have "combat sense" I'm pretty sure would describe it as "having a feel" of what's going on. Yes it might be your version of the tactics skill by any other name, it might be something more than the textbook learning the skill name "tactics" conjours up, but it's still there. Combat is deadly and people should be screwed if they don't have "it" and they come up against someone that has. That's how life works. Plain and simple.
  9. Quote (psychophipps @ Oct. 01 2002,00:51) Of course, by keeping them separate you create situations were the character has CS-equivalent 10 and no combat skills at all, which is a far from optimal solution. Let's take that paralympic shooter and compare him to a U.S. Marine sniper. Sure he can put a round in the 10-ring at 800+ meters...when he's relaxed, at the range, and has all bloody day to shoot. That jarhead can do the same with his every action being the difference between life and death for him, his spoter and rear security, while he's sweaty, hungry, and being eaten alive by bugs. Difference? Not by the rules but there is obviously one when it comes down to brass tacks. Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! ) Firstly, yeah it does create the facility to have CS 10 and no combat skills at all, but who would do that? A player with a strong character concept maybe, or a player who hasn’t had enough guidance from their GM. If the character is a well played character, it’ll work, if not then the character will die off, natural selection works in RPGs too. It’s very similar to a character who could have Botany 10 and Biology 0, or AV tech 10 but basic tech 0 and Aero tech 0 and Gyro tech 0, or even someone who has the SMG skill at 10 but Handgun 0 and Rifle 0. ANY system can be abused it’s up to the player and the GM to get all things working in moderation. With regards to the sniper situation the rules can cope with this very well as they stand. If he’s sweaty, hungry and being eaten a live by bugs, then he should have to make a roll against his Cool, or his “resist torture” skill or maybe his Endurance skill, or even both to reflect the mental and physical sides of the situation. IF he passes the tests then all well and good, he stays calm and makes his shot. IF he fails his test then you load him up with the appropriate penalties to the target number, +3 for being under stress, +4 for being hungry and tired, and +4 for a hostile environment. Now a marine sniper might well pass those torture/endurance tests, and his accuracy will remain at its peak. Chances are your average civilian shooter won’t pass them and will be itching and scratching and vomiting and shaking and will suffer the 11 point penalty thus probably missing.
  10. Quote No, what i'm saying that the more skilled combatant goes first much more often than not. Example #1: My sensei is a 4th degree blackbelt in Kajukembo and at least a blackbelt in 4 other styles. I go to kick him and he can blow me out before i've even finished chambering my punch or kick. He has the skill and the SITUATIONAL AWARENESS to get the jump on me. Example #2: Some crackhead gangbanger who's never even spent a day at the range tries to get the jump on Deathsolo. Now, the gangbanger is tore up form the floor up but he was kinda quick before he started kicking his own ass with the rock. He has a Ref of 6 and a handguns skill of maybe 2 for the drivebys and gatting rivals that NCPD is looking for him for. Deathsolo has a skill of 10 in handguns and a Reflexes of around 12-13(I don't separate them into ability and initiative). If we do the math here, the gangbanger is 8 + d10 and Deathsolo is 22-23 + d10. You roll the dice and the highest skill total goes first. Simple, direct, and realistic when you consider that speeddrawing is indeed a skill and part of comabt handgunning as is quick target acquisition in stressful situations. Deathsolo is still a badass and you never even had to touch CS and the munchkintastic situations that it can create. But hey, what do I know? Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! ) Then basically "combat sense" equates to "situational awareness". I'd wager "situational awareness" doesn't equate to "awareness notice" maybe your 4th Dan blackbelt sensei would be able to tell from his opponents body language when and how he would strike, he might notice the two guys on the other side of the road jostling and joking around and the bum in the corner as he walks up the street, but would he notice that there were two brands of filter tips left in an ashtray, or that one test tube on a rack was empty? Maybe I'm underestimating the effects of being a 4th Dan blackbelt, I don't know. I'm not trying to belittle the skill involved, I'm just saying I think it differs greatly between awareness of/in combat and awareness of the everyday environment. I do know that Miss Marple or Jessica Fletcher would spot some of those things but wouldn't have a clue whether someone's about to kick/punch/shoot them. To make a more "realistic" example, so would many forensic scientists or police investigators who would also utilize awareness /notice. The trouble with relying completely on the skill like "handgun" is that it doesn't take into account the fact that combat is not just shooting, your ability to react in combat doesn't depend so wholly on your skill with the said weapon. If a character is holding a handgun that he's hardly ever used before, and is a 4th Dan martial artist, wouldn't he, by your own admission have the skill "SITUATIONAL AWARENESS" to allow him to realise that he's in danger and raise the gun up, even if he's not got much of a chance of hitting with it? The other side of the coin would be the disabled pistol shooter. Take for example the winner of the para-olympics (sp/correct term?) 2020 gold medal for shooting. The guy could be in a wheelchair from a car accident, but he can shoot with the best of them, he can put a round through a flea's eye at 1000 yards or whatever, he'll match any army sniper round for round. He would have no idea of what to do in combat, because he has no situational awareness, no combat sense, he’s not going to be the first to react in any combat situation. But, should his shooting skill be slightly lower because he doesn't know where/what/when/who is going on in combat? No, of course not. Maybe some form of combat sense/situational awareness should stem from a high enough combat skill, or maybe the highest “combat skill” should be used to determine initiative instead of the one at hand. By keeping combat sense and/or renaming it situational awareness and keeping it separate from the weapon/combat skills, it means that a character can be fast (because he’s aware of his situation) but not necessarily accurate with that particular weapon or accurate with a particular weapon, but not necessarily fast. BUT by combining them BOTH in a total it reflects more accurately that fact that real life combat is a bit of both.
  11. Quote (psychophipps @ Sep. 30 2002,11:52) What if I were to tell you that even in the rewrite of CP they don't have "Roles" or "Special Abilities"? The fact remains that it's simply an outdated, ill-conceived part of a game that, if they ever manage to get a new edition out, will be phased out in favor of a more "open" and "realistic" approach. Everything that you guys have mentioned can easily be attributed to a good tactics skill and/or awareness ability. The fact remains that all of this stuff is really based on the characters level of previous training and professionalism. If you were sent through SAS-type training or lived in a violent neighborhood, you'd know all the little tricks that tell you when something is going down and to react accordingly. "But Mark, this is what Comabt Sense is all about..." I can hear you guys beginning. And the only answer I can give you is, "No, it's not. Combat Sense is a crutch that many players use to dodge acting like goofs and getting away with it." It doesn't matter if you're acting like a stupidass, if you go before they do, you usually win. It doesn't matter if you screwed the pooch and bitch-slapped a boosterlord for fun, you get initiative so you can haul out the ol' hogsleg and gat any threats down easily. By removing this crutch from the players, you tend to get into actual Role-playing instead of Roll-playing because their super-pimp deathsolo will get his ass blown off if he pulls a DA and that furthermore brings the game from anime-style CP to the real CP of Gibson, Williams, and Effinger where the protaginists actually had to think a bit and they knew that getting into fights would probably get them dead unless they had no choice. But then again, who wants a "Real" CP game anyway? Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! ) Well then from the little equation above subtract "combat sense" and add "tactics skill" and then add "awareness" It'll still work out the same. For every "No, it's not" you've got I've got a "yes it is" . I've never seen "Combat Sense" as a crutch, I've always seen it as quite a realistic ability, Those who are trained to fight, should be better at fighting than those who aren't, if you know what you're doing, you're more likely to go first. Being good with a weapon on a range is one thing, being good with a weapon in combat is something else. If players are acting like morons and expecting the rules to save them. Use the infinite GM powers to erm well, KILL them. If the PCs in a game aren't thinking, and just shooting. drop them, get a new gaming group whatever, combat sense when used by reasonable people works perfectly. A +4 or +5 bonus to initiative, which is what I've often seen under the standard rules, reflecting some formal military training, a tour around central america and the like, doesn't seem unreasonable. +10 Combat sense on a 10 Ref character etc, well that's either a strong and definite character concept or just a weak GM. Maybe more note needs to be given to character creation as a team process as it was in LUYPS? If CPv3 loses the roles system then that's great, but a rewrite of the v2 rules which has roles, really should include at tleast the option to have them. If folks don't like combat sense then there should be an alternate system to use included in the book that does away with it. If they think that using the Weapon skill, SMG/melee/karate whatever works fine and is more realistic then let them use that, and have the book TELL them it's ok to do that. Oh and maybe the reason that certain characters in certain seminal books have trouble in combat is because they're not the solos with the high CS. I'd also say that if folks find combat sense so unbalancing, maybe they're running games with too much combat in them? PsychoPhipps asked "How often do you use Awareness/Notice in a non-threatening situation?" His answer was "Not as often as you think you do." But I have to retort that I think I probably use it more often than he thinks I do Most CP games I've run have a bit of combat and a lot of case solving/investigation/groundwork clues, stakeouts, observations etc. Even the basic weapon skills get used a lot more often than combat sense, don't forget you only use that skill once per round, but if you fire off 3 single shots, you roll to hit with "handgun" 3 times.
  12. I think that sort "tech-clothing" may well be invented but it'll only find acceptance amoungst a certain crowd, be it techies/teens/whoevers. Style moves incredibly slowly, I think that in 20 years time we're still going to see business men in suits, teenagers in t-shirts with their favourite bands/whoever the media tells them to like's, logo on them and so on. Yes the brands may well be different (or ficticious to save on a load of copyright ) But I still think a well tailored suit will be the thing for the gentleman on his way up. Here's my little take on the corporate's alternative to tech clothing. I reckon that for corporates and their wannabes, the cell phone is going to be the PC/Laptop and the cyberdeck etc. That way you can slip something smaller than your wallet into the pocket of whatever it is you're wearing, or the purse that matches your shoes that day and go without plugging and unplugging modules and the like. Plus I don't know if in the "style over substance" arena whether having the latest 'MonSTeRTech DS9000' isn't more stylish than any tech clothing I'd see a flashy new gadget as another way of reinforcing personal style like the cell phone phenomenon that we're having at the moment, with digital cameras and full colour displays and graphic print exteriors that can be swapped to suit your current mood. I'd take it a stage further and add satellite navigation, "smart-chrome" colour changing paint, online restaurant guides, with menu's and table reservation/ordering facility (with go large option) Taxi summoner and the like.
  13. Quote ...but I still cannot see giving anyone more than 2-3 actions in a 3 second turn, scoff if you will. So what you all think? Under the rules I've proposed a character is going to need a roll of 31 to get more than 3 actions in a turn. That's quite difficult unless the character is a solo with at least average combat abilities. That means that even if they have a weapon skill of 10, a Reflexes of 10 and a cyberware reflex boost of +3, with no encumberance penalty from any armour, they're still going to need to roll an 8 or above to cram that 4th action into that round. Even an "average solo" (yeah yeah) with Reflexes 8, a weapon skill of +6 and a combat sense of +6 still only has a total of 20+1d10 and is either going to need a reflex booster of some sort to get 4 actions that round or is going to need to roll a 10 on the dice, assuming you'll let the player roll a second cumulative d10 for rolling a 10 the first time. To get 5 actions, you're going to need to be something like a FBC borg Solo with Speedware or a munchkin player who should go back to D&D But after some rather silly "acting out" type events last weekend I'm inclined to agree, there's only so much you can cram into 3 seconds and have any realistic chance of achieving any of them. An average guy on the street, with Reflexes 6 and no combat training is going to get 1 or 2 actions per round, no more. Initiative = 6+1d10, Minimum roll 7 =1 action on phase 7 Average roll 12 = 2 actions on phases 12 and 2 Maximum roll 16 = 2 actions on phases 16 and 6 An average person (ref 6)with some familiarity with weapons training say to level +5(as skilled as most military officers or policemen - CP2020 p40) is going to get only 2 or 3 actions per turn Initiative = 6+5+1d10, Minimum roll 12 = 2 actions on phases 12 and 2 Average roll 17 = 2 actions on phases 17 and 7 Maximum roll 21 = 3 actions on phases 21, 11 and 1
  14. I think there are grounds for ditching the "Combat Sense" skill but then there are definately more grounds for keeping it too. To me Combat Sense represents as much as anything the ability to know what's going on in combat, and what to do about it. It's very different from target shooting, or clay pigeon shooting or what have you. And maybe it is exactly as Phipps said "Tactics or Awareness skill" but all rolled into one. Maybe it should be called "combat awareness" or something but it's a very different skill to being able to "shoot guns accurately". It seems to me very much like the difference between practicing your jump shot vs playing an actual game of basket ball, yes ok, you know how to score in an ideal circumstance, but you've no idea, in an actual game, where your team-mates will be, where the opposition will be and so on. If you've played a few games you start to get the idea, if you've played a few hundred games... The "Awareness/Notice" skill itself is perhaps not so much to do with combat as much as it is to do with spotting clues, "two shades of lipstick on the champagne glass" or "three seperate sets of footprints not two" or "the books are stacked in alphabetical order" . In many ways the seperation is similar to the situation between Med-Tech and first-aid, I can put a splint on a broken leg, but I can't operate to repair a compound fracture, I can treat a wasp sting, but I can't deal with major chemical burns etc. or Charismatic Leadership and Play Instrument, I can play a few tunes in a bar, but I'm not gonna rock the NJ Meadowlands. I can jam some damn fine licks for a white boy, but I can't get 50000 people to chant my name when I walk onstage. I guess a lot of the combat debate also comes down to the style of game you play. If there's a lot of combat and you're finding things are getting polarised between the Solos and the Not-Solos then maybe it's not the mechanic of the game that's wrong, maybe it's a power level between the characters? If you're finding you've got a solo with Reflexes 10, adrenal booster, sandevistan boost (with boostmaster) combat sense +10, and he's mauling everything in sight before anyone else draws a weapon, then maybe something's gone wrong in the character generation stage, and there's just not been enough communication between the GM and the player? I've not found it uncommon for a PC Solo to have combat sense at say +4 or +5 which while a big advantage in combat, doesn't completely outbalance the whole game like folks are seeming to suggest. Ok, someone check me for cerebral hemorrhage
  15. And for God's sake don't let me discourage anyone else from posting up thier suggestions and their sets of rules.
  16. Oh and yeah I know what you mean about the 102 year old, LOL, but I figure if you don't keep your skills up to scratch you'd lose them some what, there are rules for that in a couple of places I can't recall off hand right now. If you think about it a 102 year old with Lou Gehrig's disease is probably going to be one of those character's that's undergone a dual role/role change thing with a new Special ability of "Sitting Quietly" rather than "Combat Sense"
  17. Quote (Hanns @ Sep. 26 2002,20:25) Monster, Have you ever trained with people like this? They don't necessarily react faster than everyone else but they do tend to notice things better (high Awareness skill) and when they do act they do things more effeciently because it's an ingrained reaction. I spent a fair amount of time with my old First Sgt. who was a 17 year US Special Forces veteran. I can honestly tell you he wasn't a "pre-natural psychic death dealer" when it came to reactions. If he was then myself as 19 year old Joe Snuffy with no combat experience wouldn't have a chance to sneeze before he had finished reading the Sunday paper, ironing his socks and killing an entire battalion of midget gerbil paratroopers with a spork. It wasn't this way in real life and I've argued before that Combat Sense is overly powerful, unbalancing to the game and almost impossible to prove that a real life skill as described in the book exists as such. My problem with Combat Sense is that a 102 year old WWI vet with Lou Gehrig's disease (Ref 2, C.S. 10) is going to react as fast as a 20 year old kid with near perfect reflexes, Sandevistan speed boost (Ref. 9 & +3 for boost) and no combat time. I just don't see it happening anytime soon. FWIW, Hanns Yeah, not much time but yeah. I've trained a little with guys from a few regiments including 2-Para and a guy from the SAS. Maybe I was just in awe of their confidence or their familiarity with what the hell was going on. But I felt painfully out of my depth as to what the hell was going on around me while they seemed so calm and collected. I'm not trying to say that a Solo with Combat Sense 10 could annihiliate a platoon of rookies with Combat Sense 0. But I'm fairly sure that he'd recognise the signs that combat was on the horizon and be ready for it before 90% of the troops. But I would argue that having a system with a "reflexes" stat that governs everything from a character's ability to use a machinegun, react in combat or play tennis means that some advantage has to be given to reflect those with a background in the military or constant urban warfare rather than those with a great backhand. With the addition of the skill governing the current combat action, such as Handgun etc. it does make Combat Sense less overpowering, but still I think reflects the fact someone who knows what they're doing is more likley to succeed. At the moment under these rules, everything else being equal having 10 points plowed into combat sense would still only allow a character to act once before the non-combat sense character. Not mow down a platoon with an empty packet from an MRE. I think it's important that somehow the difference between textbook learning or a few days at the range and having, in a CP setting, done 3 tours in Panama. I think being accurate with a gun on a range is one thing, but also having those "ingrained reaction"s when the lead or the fists start flying. That is what I'm trying to find a way to reflect by keeping combat sense. There's also the point that Agamemnon brought up of balancing realism with entertainment, I'm sure that James Bond or Wolverine or whoever are great Solo's but they're definately not real, but hten again, having things completely 100% real isn't Cyberpunk... It's finding where to draw the line!
  18. Quote (Agamemnon @ Sep. 26 2002,14:21) Why bother to roll? Unless two solos are sparring, the accumulated initiative bonuses will be so different that it makes no bloody difference anyway. I'm just not buying the "super-reflex" crap that is the Combat Sense skill. That's probably because you've never been in combat or seen how trained professionals react. If you served in Bosnia or Northern Ireland, or another similar warzone, or just went through military training either in the regular forces or the reserves, you get to "feel" what's going on more than someone who spends their time in an office but owns a couple of handguns and enjoys going down the shooting range on a Saturday afternoon. Likewise someone who owns those couple of handguns and goes shooting once a week is going to know how to ready their weapon and bring it to bare on target better than someone who plays golf on a weekend instead. If you don't like combat sense, take it out of your game. But all things being roughly equal in real life, those with skill and experience are going to survive a lot longer than those who haven't got any.
  19. Oh and of course I failed to mention that the phases count down from the highest initiative downwards towards 0. It played out that familiarity with a weapon type really enhanced your chances of going first, but also that Combat Sense meant that an experienced combat veteran/gifted warrior, also retained some of their edge even when using weapons other than their favoured type. Suck it and see
  20. Here's some stuff I tried out last weekend, it actually worked surprisingly well, read it through and play out a couple of firefights yourselves BEFORE you tear it to shreds;) Initiative to be determined as a total of the following :- Reflexes Stat Relevant Skill Level Combat Sense Reflex boosting cyberware (speedware) Miscellaneous modifiers 1d10 This should yield a result between approximately 2 and 50. Which seems a huge difference, but also takes into account seemingly most of the relevant factors that would determine initiative in combat. I think it's important if we're rewriting this stuff to blanket everything in, to balance skill, experience, natural gifts, synthetic gifts and plain old dumb luck. I know it looks like a lot of things. Actions are then taken on the relevant phase equal to the initiative roll. For example, if the inititive roll was 30, then the character would act on phase 30. Subsequent actions can then be taken 10 phases later. Taking the previous example, the second action could be taken on phase 20, and then a third action on phase 10. There is no phase 0, as such no actions can be taken after phase 1, anything subsequent to this point occurs in the next combat round. The subsequent actions are, like before, subject to a cumulative modifier of -3 for each successive action. The relevent skill could be anything from the expected Handgun/Rifle type skills, to Dodge and Escape or even Athletics if the character is attempting to get behind cover. I also had a brief chance to introduce this overall system to vehicular combat (well a chase scene anyway) and there you substitute the relevent Driving/Piloting skill and so on. It also keeps the initiative cosistant across the two types of action. For example, I was running a chase seen with the PCs chasing after a car in the city in their own car, and there was the occasion as to whether the NPC vehicle could change lanes to use other vehicles as cover, before the PC leaning out of the window could get a shot off. It came down to a contest of initiatives, but also indirectly a contest of one character's skill with his gun vs another's skill behind the wheel. IMHO, it worked well. And kept everything in the same "realtime" environment, something I think we'll all agree is a key goal here. Taking things every 10 phases means that the Uber-Solo types are still going to be able to get off 4 or even 5 actions a round, which I don't think is unrealistic for a well trained, experienced individual, but the average citizen with no training is pretty much going to get one or maybe just two actions as they think to themselves "ooh this thing is heavier than I imagined" It also meant in the example I ran that those characters well versed in combat got off one or even sometimes two actions before a someone the average non-combat types did. I extrapolated some figures too withthe characters from the MonSTeRPunK game and found that the toughest characters could get 4 or 5 actions, at their very best and still get 3 at their worst, whilst the less combat focused characters would sometimes only get a single action. The only problem I see here though is it's very tempting to "engineer" your character for and extra point or two JUST to get that extra action. Well have a chew over folks, and then get back here and comment.
  21. Well I playtested a set of rules based on lots of the suggestions here over the weekend. Adding the weapon skill, taking a cumulative -3 penalty to each successive action, and having one action every 10 "phases". I'll write up the results more fully over the course of either this evening or tomorrow But I'll say it was pretty damn effective, NOT complicated, flowed well and still seemed fairly real!!!
  22. Well I playtested a set of rules based on lots of the suggestions here over the weekend. Adding the weapon skill, taking a cumulative -3 penalty to each successive action, and having one action every 10 "phases". I'll write up the results more fully over the course of either this evening or tomorrow But I'll say it was pretty damn effective, NOT complicated, flowed well and still seemed fairly real!!!
  23. Quote (psychophipps @ Sep. 20 2002,20:20) I still think that a skill-based initiative is the way to go. If you're a professional tactical pistoleer and you yard out a lopped-off buck-it that you've used 10 times in your life, you're not going to be blasting off the shots with as much accuracy or swinging the weapon to bear on the next target as quickly as you could otherwise. Just increase the phasing numbers by 5 and go from there. I'd also make the phasing numbers flat 5s to make things easier, Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! ) I think it's quite a good idea the skill modifier, but I also worry it becomes too much like making "initiative" a stat in it's own right, it makes the individual skill a unbalancing and overpowering. Not only do you get a better chance of hitting, you also get to go first. And what munchkin could resist But I DO however see the logic and the realism. If you spend a lot of your time training to run around buildings with an MP5, then when it comes time to do it for real... Then again, is that training, for your "SMG skill" or the "combat sense" skill? Oh and can you explain the phasing numbers going to "flat 5s" for me Bro ?
  24. Quote (psychophipps @ Sep. 20 2002,20:20) I still think that a skill-based initiative is the way to go. If you're a professional tactical pistoleer and you yard out a lopped-off buck-it that you've used 10 times in your life, you're not going to be blasting off the shots with as much accuracy or swinging the weapon to bear on the next target as quickly as you could otherwise. Just increase the phasing numbers by 5 and go from there. I'd also make the phasing numbers flat 5s to make things easier, Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! ) I think it's quite a good idea the skill modifier, but I also worry it becomes too much like making "initiative" a stat in it's own right, it makes the individual skill a unbalancing and overpowering. Not only do you get a better chance of hitting, you also get to go first. And what munchkin could resist But I DO however see the logic and the realism. If you spend a lot of your time training to run around buildings with an MP5, then when it comes time to do it for real... Then again, is that training, for your "SMG skill" or the "combat sense" skill? Oh and can you explain the phasing numbers going to "flat 5s" for me Bro ?
  25. Bob initiates the transfer of the netrunner's resumes/boasts leaving the fixer to sort the wheat from the chaff. "Yeah," says Bob so the first guy looks good, former combat programmer back in CenAm, the second guy is claiming to be ex-corporate, Zetatech I think it was. Anyway the military guy's looking for 1K all in, but the corp guy's after 100 per day plus expenses for any hardware he loses as a result. Chew 'em over and let me know ok?" With the evening moving on, Neko will have time for some sake, and Thumper a while to take in the "show" before they have to get moving for the rendez vous with Tony Benedetto
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